Upgrade Caption to Graphic does not work with Presets with Type: Scale

See post in regular forum, demonstrating this in Release 23.5.0 and providing more detail:
https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/upgrade-caption-to-graphic-does-not-work-with-presets-with-type-scale/idc-p/13973337#M12667

Steps to reproduce:
1 Create presets for effect (I used Gaussian blur) with a) Anchor to Out and b) Scale.

2 Create caption with duration of 5:29 (really anything other than 4:29)

3 Select and Upgrade Caption to Graphic

4 Apply either Preset. 

 
Result: The new graphic text duration is 5:29, but the keyframe for the outpoint is 4:29, not 5:29
Expected: The outpoint would be 5:29.

A preset with Anchor to In works. Anchor to Out does not work. Scale does not work.

See the link above: Changing the default still image value changes the end point value. A caption duration of 4:29 works, without regard to the preference setting.

Stan

 System info
    Application: Premiere Pro (Beta) v24.0.0.14
    OS: Windows v10.0.19045, RAM: 63.80 GB GB, CPUs (logical): 16

@Stan Jones 

Appreciate the detailed analysis. I will continue testing but I'm glad you have validated the bug as well. I would love for the CTG's to work like text layers as that seems to be the intended use. The ability to apply ANY effects for to captions would be beneficial, hense why there is an option to "Upgrade Caption to Graphic"

"--Aside: For example, CTG inherits the “paragraph text” property, including position properties of the Text Anchor Point and the Text/Transform to the upper left of the bounding box. Point text is bottom left. This confuses and frustrates users who want to zoom and cannot figure out how to get the CTG anchor point into the middle of the bounding box. "

--I do agree that the bounding box may be confusing and complicated for some presets. The CTG seems to be a bigger box than actually around just the text presented. In my testing, only using Anchor to In Point (since that is the only one that works atm), the scale is way off due to the anchor point issues. Maybe this bug will also present the issue with the bounding boxes as well. We could theroetically prevent this issues by adjusting the anchor point on the preset but that adds another level of unnecessary complications.

We can only hope all of this makes sense and Adobe will update Beta so we can test further. Currently, My presets and animations will have to be locked down to Anchor in. 

Thank you for your input. I greatly appreciate it.

@KYLER HOLLAND,

It has taken me several days to get caught up enough to respond to this. I have done previous testing on the nature of Caption to Graphic (CTG) items, and it becomes mind-numbing. So until I had a chance to test, I had nothing to offer.

Aside: For example, CTG inherits the “paragraph text” property, including position properties of the Text Anchor Point and the Text/Transform to the upper left of the bounding box. Point text is bottom left. This confuses and frustrates users who want to zoom and cannot figure out how to get the CTG anchor point into the middle of the bounding box. Or they move the anchor point correctly in the Text/Transform section, and then zoom based on the Vector motion or Video motion sections. One strategy is to set the captions to the center, then apply the Transform effect and nest in the main timeline to move the animated “captions” to the bottom of the frame. I wonder if there is any alternate workflow for you.

You have discovered, and I have confirmed, that something is wrong with the CTG when a preset is applied. I simplified this by eliminating the transform effect.

@jstrawn, re your comment "You probably don't have to include the parts about upgrading caption to graphic or comparing that to native Pr Text." You may have simply meant that the steps were clear. Because of the results of my earlier testing, I do not assume that CTG and native text are necessarily the same. But I also keep thinking they MUST be and this is some kind of time calculation oddity. And, of course, when I get into the weeds like this, I could just be wrong!

I tested using 23.5.0. I used a single-clip timeline. I realized after the fact that this is probably VFR but nominally 29.97. I cut it into clips of varying lengths. I used a 3:09:00 section to create gaussian blur presets. "Anchor in" set keyframes at zero and 1 second, blur 20 to zero. Anchor out, end minus one second and end, blur zero to 20. And Scale was zero and end, blur 0 and 20.

All the presets work correctly for video clips, and typed graphics text created as point or paragraph text.

CTG of all durations works for Anchor in.

CTG of duration 4:29 works for all conditions.

CTG of any other duration does not work for Anchor out and Scale. I tried 2:29, 3:00, 4:00, 5:29. I did this by setting the caption length, then applying the Upgrade Caption to Graphic. I was copying the CTG to my test timeline, but it was matching.

There is an interaction with Edit -> Preferences -> Timeline -> Still Image Default Duration.

With the usual default of 5 seconds (4:29), a CTG of 5:29 places the end point (for Anchor Out or Scale) at 4:28. With the preference set to 4 seconds (3:29), the Presets set the CTG 5:29 end point at 3:28.

Next step; update Beta and test there.

Stan

@jstrawn 

Watch this quick video for an overview of the issue: Upgrade Caption to Graphics BUG in Premiere Pro 

Thank you for replying! I appreciate looking into this. I am using the latest version 23.5 on both Mac + PC with the same results.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time following what you are trying to do. What version of Pr are you using?

Could you write out some steps for me to follow? You probably don't have to include the parts about upgrading caption to graphic or comparing that to native Pr Text. Also, sending me your preset might help. You can do that using the direct message feature of this forum. You're looking for a file like this in your Profile... Effect Presets and Custom Items.prfpset

Also, is there a reason you need to use the transform effect for this? Generally speaking, animating Scale for a Text Layer or for a Whole Graphic is a more reliable method.

Still having issues with this. Totally slowing down my workflow. Would love the ability to use presets on subtitles. Please let me know if anyone from Adobe has seen this. Thanks!

I've talked with other creators and they are experiencing the same issue.

Lemme know if you know anything about this! Thanks!