Punched-in footage exports blurry to lower resolutions

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Hello everybody, unfortunately I need to open this topic back up after last time this issue was quickly (and wrongly) dismissed as user error and instantly moved to discussions. Since then I've been contacted by multiple users asking me if I ever resolved this issue, and I'm still experiencing this on day-to-day usage, here it is again with a test project for easier testing:

• Issue - When on exporting from any resolution to lower resolutions, punched-in footage only loses resolution. Resolution is fine while working in Premiere in the program window.
• Adobe Premiere Pro version number: 24.4.1 (Build 2)
• Operating system - Mac OS Sonoma 14.3.1
• System Info: CPU, GPU, RAM, HD:

  • CPU M1 Max

  • GPU M1 Max

  • RAM 32 GB

  • Internal SSD

• Video format: 3840x2160 ProRes footage
• Steps to reproduce:
  • Open a brand new project.
    
  • Import a 3840x2160 clip.
  • Drop it onto the "New Composition" button, a new clip with the same footage settings is created
  • Zoom clip into composition to 200% (basically a 1920x1080 crop remains framed, in the preview window it is still reasonably sharp).
  • Check that "Use maximum render quality" is checked everywhere, both on the comp setting and in render.
  • Try to export the clip: if exporting to 1920x1080, punched-in clips lose more resoltion than what you can see in the program window.
• Expected result - I would expect to at least retain all the available detail in the punched-in clips, which I can see just fine in the program window (meaning detail is actually there).
• Actual result - Clips come out blurry.

Test Project

I attach a test project that perfectly shows the issue. It contains a 2160p ProRes source clip, which for the sake of the test I scale up to 200% on the right side. On the left side I instead crop the 1080p central part of the clip and use "Scale to frame size". Both layers now show a 1080p crop of the source clip, but only one of them exports sharp when you select lower resolutions in the preview window. The lower the resolution, the more apparent the issue becomes.

Real world impact of this issue

I sometimes need to punch-in 2160p clip from clients project, just for zooming or reframing purposes. I still need to work 2160p timeline to retain all details for non-punched in clips. Clients also asks for lower resolution versions of exports (for example for easier storage and playback, but also for diverse application like exhibition led walls who only accept precise resolutions). All punched-in clips on those lower resolution files are completely ruined, and I have no indication of that happening without checking every single export (it looks fine in program window). No amount of fiddling with settings ("Use maximum render quality") fixes the issue.

[Bruce Bullis]

What export preset (.epr file) are you using, for the 'try to export the clip' step? 

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Hello Bruce,

I used the standard ProRes 422 preset that comes with the software installation. It says "Custom" in the screenshot just because I changed the resolution from "Match Source" to a lower resolution. Thank you for your time.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Hello Bruce,

Did you find any time to see if the issue is reproducible for you? I'm still at a loss on how to tackle this, since for every project I export clients ask for lower res versions and there are usually some zoomed clips. I originally thought that "Use maximum render quality" was exactly for scenarios like this, but that doesn't seem to change the output. Thank you in advance.

[adamq4059727]

I am experiencing this exact issue and it is causing me very frequent problems in my work, as I often reframe footage by punching in and also using footage on mixed resolution on the same timeline. I am losing resolution in a way that isn't acceptable in my work. Is there a solution for this?

[Bruce Bullis]

>Did you find any time to see if the issue is reproducible for you?

No; I was waiting for a clear answer to my "which preset?" question...?

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Hello Bruce,

I thought I answered that just after your first reply, but let me know what is not clear about:

> I used the standard ProRes 422 preset that comes with the software installation. It says "Custom" in the screenshot just because I changed the resolution from "Match Source" to a lower resolution.

To be fair it doesn't even happen with any specific preset export, ANY export preset or settings triggers this issue as long as the "Basic Video Settings > Frame Size" is lower than the composition resolution. It doesn't even need to export, the issue shows instantly in the export preview in my test project (as soon as the resolution is lowered, the right side of the frame gets blurrier compared to the left). Thank you again.

[Bruce Bullis]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Hey Bruce,

Any luck investigating this issue? Thank you in advance.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Still stumbling into this workflow breaking bug literally every day. This is a paid software and I'm honestly baffled on how even complete, detailed bug reports are simply ignored and/or disregarded (and I was even ridiculed on the topic I opened a year ago like I didn't know what I was talking about or my worflow was wrong). I'm tired to pretend this is OK for a paying professional.

I'm beginning to think the issue is related to the MRQ setting detailed here:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/premiere-pro-v23-4-use-maximum-render-quality-does-...

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/max-render-quality-not-functioning/idi-p/13978960

[R Neil Haugen]

The problem is stated in your first post ... you used Scale to Framesize which rasterizes to that framesize so you have lost the higher resolution.

Don't!

Use Scale to framesize instead, as it recompute always from original pixels.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

How am I supposed to use scale to framesize if I need to punch-in footage to just about 120%? Or If I need to do a slow zoom in, let's say from 100% to 120% using keyframes?

[R Neil Haugen]

Set to and Scale to are technically settings in the Preferences, and can also be invoked from sequences IIRC.

Both allow for dropping clips onto a sequence and automatically adjusting to fit the sequence framesize.

But Scale to rasterizes the image to the sequence. Any further scaling is done from that raster image.

Set to adjusts the image to the framesize but keeps the original data. So any further scaling is computed from original image data.

If you are simply using the position and Scale settings on a sequence in the ECP, that also works with original image data.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

I'm sorry Neil, but the core of the issue is not even what the difference between "Set to" and "Scale to" really do: the issue is that -whatever- they do, it's not reflected correctly in the preview window VS what happens during export. I could edit all day, having perfect sharpness in my preview window at whatever size and/or resolution I have set it at, but whenever I export to a resolution that is LOWER than the composition resolution all the clips which have "Motion > Scale" in the EPC at any value above 100% are blurry.

I get what you're trying to get at with the difference between "Set to" and "Scale to", but in reality however they operate should be negligible: using "Maximum render quality" should still bring out all the available pixels during export. If I framed 1080p worth of pixels on a 2160p composition and export a 1080p clip (or lower), even taking into account any loss from scaling algorithms, I should expect close to 1080p worth of detail into my export. But as you can see from my test project, half of the frame gets RAMMED (the half which has been scaled with "Motion > Scale") while the other half (that used "Scale to") keeps detail.

This is a big issue, because as you said in your last post, I cannot use "position and Scale settings" for any clip if I intend to export some versions at lower resolutions.

[R Neil Haugen]

No. Just .... no.

Scale to throws away your original resolution as an INTENDED thing,  as that was originally designed back when computers had like 16GB of RAM max. And struggled with playing back 1280x720 ProRes sequences.

Once thrown away, you cannot get the data back.

Using Scale To, starting with UHD to 'normal' 1920x1080, your image is ONLY 1920x1080. Period. There is no further data available for the computation. Including at export.

Using Set To, starting with UHD to 'normal' 1920x1080, you still have all the original pixels available for any further scaling work.

That's reality.

[Fabio22557433ezjg]

Those are words you're typing on your computer.

Reality is whatever is happening in the test project and screenshot I attached, which still nobody really tried to replicate on their system, and whatever is happening to countless other users in the other topics I linked above.

Reality is this clip just exported from that same test project, where left side is on "Scale to" and right side is on "200%", using ProRes 422 default preset with FHD resolution selected.

Reality is encountering this issue for over a year, multiple times every week, just because I'm trying to use a really basic feature of Media Encoder to export a clip to multiple output resolutions.

I don't wanna sound rude but I've been ridiculed one time already because nobody really tried to replicate a clear-as-day issue, perfectly reported TWO times using the provided template with steps to reproduce and system configuration, and even attaching a ready-to-go test project in an attempt to improve the software for everyone. It always ends in a lot of discussion about technicalities but nobody really gets to what happens in reality.

[R Neil Haugen]

I can't replicate the behaviour you're getting. In your post, you mention using a setting that would guarantee getting the results you are reporting.

Hence my comments.

If you are getting this without using Scale To, in both the Preference and on the sequence, then that would be "wrong" behavior by the app.

I'm just practical.

[jamieclarke]

Updating Status