This error again - Frame Substitution Recursion & Error Retrieving Frame

[JeremyAndrewDavis]

I've dealt with this error before but it now seems to be on steroids - Frame Substitution Recursion attempt aborting after multiple attempts on file...

Mac Mini M4 Pro

64G memory

Sequoia 15.1

Media Hard Drive - WD_BLACK 4TB SN850X NVMe SSDGen4 PCIe, M.2 2280, Up to 7,300 MB/s

1.9TB available of 4TB

Premiere Pro 24.?, 25.2 and 25.3 (beta)

I'm editing multiple footage files that I've used consistently since 2022. They are h.264 mp4 files - basically B-Roll masterfiles for work that have never given me any issue. Some of the footage is 59.97fps, some are 29.97. None are variable framerate, all have been exported into these file formats from their original sources and used without issue for some time, including on a much less powerful machine.

At the beginning of January I was using Premiere Pro (beta) - not sure which version - and every footage clip in the library started giving me the "Error retrieving frame" error. I couldn't get it to stop so I switched to the non-beta version 24.? Things were fine for a few months until today when all my exports failed and every timeline and clip started giving me the "Frame Substitution Recursion..." error. I had not changed any settings, no updates on software or OS, just halfway through the day errors started. Errors also occur in Media Encoder.

Things I've tried - 

Clearing cache

Deleting rendered files (there were none)
Restarting Premiere

Restarting computer
Plugging the hard drive directly into the computer via different port.

Creating a new premiere file and importing the footage in fresh.
Upgrading premiere to 25.2
Uninstalling premiere and reinstalling 25.2

Uninstalling beta and reinstalling and trying on beta 25.3

Pounding my keyboard in anger.

Crying in the corner.

Nothing has worked, though for some reason I can't stop re-trying the last two.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @JeremyAndrewDavis -   Thanks for submitting your bug report. We need a few more details to try to help with the issue.

Can you provide a screenshot of the media file properties for your files?

Are you getting frame recurssion errors on 1 file or multiple files?  
Have you tried transferring the problem files to your internal hard drive and then relaunching Premiere to see if you still get the same errors?

We’ve made updates to address this issue in version 25. I recommend troubleshooting in version 25.0 or later.

Sorry for the frustration.

[JeremyAndrewDavis]

Thanks @jamieclarke 

I'm working in Premiere Pro 25.2

And just for clairty, my computer is a 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine so this footage should be a cake walk.

I transferred the files to the internal computer hard drive and I'm getting the same errors.
I'm experiencing this error across multiple timelines that source multiple clips.

Here are a few:

This one is 60fps:

This one is 25fps (shot in AU):

This is another 25fps clip:

This one is 60fps:

One of these clips won't export at all. I've been able to export one which took forever and forced the fan on my computer to kick on high, which hasn't happened on anything simple like this before. Then, that exported video freezes on a frame and the rest of the video is that frame frozen.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @JeremyAndrewDavis - just confirming after you transferred the files to your internal hd, you disconnected your external hard drive?  Can you send one of the problem files and project to jamiec@adobe.com

[konraderer]

I closed my project on April 1, when I open it on April 5 every clip is black and all flashing Frame substitution recursion attempt aborting after multiple attempts."

I moved one of these files to my internal HD and it worked for a moment, went offline, now seems to be working. But I haven't got room to put these all on my internal HD.

What's a sane fix for this that would allow me to pretend that this is a functioning professional editing program long enough for me to finish this cut?

File info:

File Path: J:\TTMFT production\120724\A_CAM\A01\A001B30R\A001C001_120101_B30R.mxf
Type: MXF
File Size: 16.79 GB
Image Size: 3424 x 2202
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 24-bit - 5 Channels
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - 5 Channels
Total Duration: 00:01:06:05
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Alpha: None
Color Space: Rec. 709
Color Space Override: Off
Input LUT: None

MXF File details:
Wrapper type: MXF OP1a (type: SingleItem SinglePackage MultiTrack Stream Internal)
File generated by: ARRI, ALEXA Mini (SUP 6.01.01)
ARRIRAW

Proxy Media

File Path: N:\KINO KIBEI 2\PF proxies\Narrative footage proxies\A001C001_120101_B30R_Proxy.mov
Type: QuickTime Movie
File Size: 193.22 MB
Image Size: 1712 x 1101
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 24-bit - Mono
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Mono
Total Duration: 00:01:06:05
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Alpha: None
Color Space: Rec. 709
Color Space Override: Off
Input LUT: None

QuickTime Details:
Movie contains 1 video track(s), 1 audio track(s), 0 closed caption track(s), and 1 timecode track(s).

Video:
There are 1589 frames with a duration of 1001/24000ths.

Video track 1:
Duration is 0:01:06:06
Average frame rate is 23.98 fps

Video track 1 contains 1 type(s) of video data:

Video data block #1:
Frame Size = 1712 x 1101
Compressor = Apple ProRes 422 Proxy
Quality = Most (5.00)

Audio:
Audio track 1 contains 1 type(s) of audio data:

Audio data block #1:
Format = 24 bit - 5 channels
Rate = 48000 Hz
Compressor = uncompressed

Timecode:
Timecode track 1 contains 1 type(s) of data:

Timecode data block #1:
Start Time = 09:52:47:20
Reel name =

File Path: J:\TTMFT production\120724\A_CAM\A01\A001B30R\A001C010_120101_B30R.mxf
Type: MXF
File Size: 29.29 GB
Image Size: 3424 x 2202
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 24-bit - 5 Channels
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - 5 Channels
Total Duration: 00:01:55:13
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Alpha: None
Color Space: Rec. 709
Color Space Override: Off
Input LUT: None

MXF File details:
Wrapper type: MXF OP1a (type: SingleItem SinglePackage MultiTrack Stream Internal)
File generated by: ARRI, ALEXA Mini (SUP 6.01.01)
ARRIRAW

Proxy Media

File Path: N:\KINO KIBEI 2\PF proxies\Narrative footage proxies\A001C010_120101_B30R_Proxy.mov
Type: QuickTime Movie
File Size: 535.38 MB
Image Size: 1712 x 1101
Frame Rate: 23.976
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 24-bit - Mono
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Mono
Total Duration: 00:01:55:13
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Alpha: None
Color Space: Rec. 709
Color Space Override: Off
Input LUT: None

QuickTime Details:
Movie contains 1 video track(s), 1 audio track(s), 0 closed caption track(s), and 1 timecode track(s).

Video:
There are 2773 frames with a duration of 1001/24000ths.

Video track 1:
Duration is 0:01:55:15
Average frame rate is 23.98 fps

Video track 1 contains 1 type(s) of video data:

Video data block #1:
Frame Size = 1712 x 1101
Compressor = DNxHR LB 8-bit
Quality = Most (5.00)

Audio:
Audio track 1 contains 1 type(s) of audio data:

Audio data block #1:
Format = 24 bit - 5 channels
Rate = 48000 Hz
Compressor = uncompressed

Timecode:
Timecode track 1 contains 1 type(s) of data:

Timecode data block #1:
Start Time = 10:33:01:03
Reel name =

[konraderer]

and this is Adobe Premiere 25.2.0, updated today.

On a Windows 11 system.

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 64.0 GB
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070

[jamieclarke]

Hi @konraderer - Can you try and hold down "SHIFT" while launching Premiere and check the box
"Clear media cache files"

[jamieclarke]

Hi @JeremyAndrewDavis - I see this issue now,  It happens when using Scene Edit Detection in version 25.2.

[JeremyAndrewDavis]

Thanks Jamie,

Can you clarify - does this bug cause any video clip to start having these errors if scene edit detection is ever used on it?

[jamieclarke]

Hi @JeremyAndrewDavis -  No, I haven’t seen this error before with these files. My guess is that the file might be corrupted, especially since I’m seeing frame glitches in the original media. If you still have the original project and media, could you try re-rendering it in the latest version of Premiere Pro to see if that resolves the issue?

[JeremyAndrewDavis]

I've tested those theories now, but with different results.

When I open a freshly new premiere project file and import the clips associated with the error and dont use scene edit detection, I still get the error code. At first the code didn't show up. I played through both clips in a timeline and only got the error codes after both had been almost fully played through seamlessly without error. The first play-through had no issues, then it started throwing the code. Sections of the video that played fine now no longer played. Premiere is obviously glitching itself out on these for some reason it if is able to play them smoothly without issue, then suddenly throw errors.

To further test this and guage if the files themselves could be corrupt, I opened the files in other video programs and exported them to see if therre were any frame drops, glitches or errors. There were none. Both Descript and GoPro Player were able to ingest, play, and export these same video files flawlessly without errors or bogging down. (note that there are some intentional black sections of the video that deliniate different types of b-roll and those aren't file issues. Additionally the original footage was shot in AU at 25 fps so when the B-roll mixdown was exported at 29.97, premiere added stray frames between edits here and there - which has happened regularly for me but for this workflow didn't cause me enough issues to have to try and get support - but those aren't corrupted file issue, it was just in the original export). 

When I take these new files that were ingested and exported by other programs, Premiere doesn't have errors and even plays back smoothly at 400x speed. Scene edit detection also works and very fast. So it looks like any time Premiere decides it can't read a file I'll have to use a different program to export the file again since premiere can't export the file without either failing or baking in glitches like freeze frames and black screen.

So something seeminly in the new versions of Premiere has caused a bug where for particular clips for an as-yet unknown reason, that have played fine for 3 years and play fine in other programs, now is causing an error code. This same error code seems to be a long-term issue that has plagued Premiere for more than a decade, popping up in different scenerios. Other editing programs don't seem to have this issue and when I've encountered it in the past, the only solution that's ever worked for me is to do a workaround in a different program (DaVinci, Final Cut, etc). I wish Premiere would do what it needs to in its programming so this error is no longer an issue for users.

[JeremyAndrewDavis]

I may have found some info that could point to what is causing the error. When I go back to my original project files with the errors and use 'replace footage' to link it to the new export... it offsets the timecode by 07:54:09. So the clip that started at timecode 00:00:00, now references the frame from the footage starting at 07:54:09.

Additionally, all the clips that are now grayed out because their timecode references are past the end of the clip, those are all the clips that were not working and throwing error codes. The earlier clips that reference timecode before the footage's end were not the ones that had errors.

It seems like the 'frame substitution' and 'retrieving frame' errors are caused by a bug that's trying to read the wrong point in the timecode.

And just as I'm typing this, the premiere project is starting to throw new error codes associated with a different footage clip. Interestingly, the clip that is throwing codes is not even open in any timelines - it is present in a timeline in the project, but that timeline is not open.