Upon opening, intermittent timeline red bar for projects/sequences resulting in poor performance

[Dad From Minnie]

Premiere Pro 24.1.0 (build 85)

Windows 10 Pro (version 22H2)

Intermittent issue, probably started with 23.6.2

Steps to reproduce:

1) Open premiere pro. Single click to open project from recent list.

2) Project opens, Editting workspace, to defaulting sequence/timeline. Issue:

It MAY have red line (performance concern) in the sequence timeline, or it may be yellow (performance ok). Red is much more common. When it is yellow, the system works perfectly, great performance, no dropped frames, no scrubbing delays. When it is red, dropped frames occur just running the sequence (no fast scrubbing required to get dropped frames).  Just to get it to run without performance issues, I have to select playback resolution to 1/2.

I have not been able to determine a sequence of events/keystrokes that lead to Red or Yellow consistently.  It happens with all projects/sequences I have tried (dozens). I have completed numerous performance improvement tasks (clearing cache, closing project, rebooting) with no change. 

64GB of RAM.

I look forward to your suggestions.

[MyerPj]

I'm not sure what you are asking. If it's red, it is saying, there may be dropped frames and slower performance in playback.

Of course you can render the sequence or an in to out section which would turn it green and you'd be good to go, possiby to the next edit.

What kind of media, what's your hardware like?

[Dad From Minnie]

I know what red means. The point is the exact same project/sequence is opened in the same way, and sometimes it shows as RED and it sometimes shows as YELLOW. YELLOW, all is fine; RED, performance is bad. Because it is sometimes fine (YELLOW) it leads me to think that when it is RED, there is an intermittent issue and it seems like that issue is a bug.

What the rest of my media/hardware is doesn't seem to be germane, because if I was underpowered in any way, I would never have good performance (YELLOW).

[Dad From Minnie]

Clarification: "I know what red means," sounds snarky. I did not mean anything negative by it. Apologies if I offended.

[R Neil Haugen]

An NLE works by metadata, right? That sequence only exists as a text file of the bits & pieces of clips used, and any effects that have been applied.

But playback is totally dependent on the complete load on the system at that specific moment. And having another app open such as a browser, can impact system resources available to Premiere. Obviously, in different amounts at different times. 

So actually, to assess your situation without a detailed knowledge of your OS, system, your media & what created it, the drives everything in the project is parked on, the available space on cache drives, all of that ... is impossible.

[Dad From Minnie]

Maybe you're right. I've noted the system details below.

Here's why I don't think the system details make much of a difference, though. When I say sometimes it is RED, sometimes it is YELLOW, I mean, in one session, where all I am doing is opening and closing these projects and nothing else changes, within the span of 10 minutes, I get mostly RED, and occasionally YELLOW. Seems buggy to me.

windows 10 Pro, x64
64 GB RAM (2 32gb TridentZ RGB DDR4, slots 2 and 4)
AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 6-Core Processor 3.8 GHz
ROG Strix B450-F Gaming motherboard

Samsung SSD 660 EVO 500GB (C: drive, apps)
-- 500+ gb free

Sabrent Rocket Q 8tb nvmE pdi m.2 ssd (DATA)
-- 500+ gb free

I hope this information helps.

[R Neil Haugen]

No GPU information and no media and effects used data. Still incomplete to make any judgment.

And the changes between red and yellow depend on what system resources are available for use versus Premiere needs at that moment. Which depending on various factors can be fluid.

[Ann Bens]

If your renderbar is red it means the GPU for render and playback is not working correctly.

Make sure you have the most current gpu drive installed.

(for Nvidia that would be the Studio Driver).

[MyerPj]

Thanks. 

I noticed when I was testing some stuff like that recently, I was seeing if my rendered timeline would keep coming back green, when I would exit PP. It did, though sometimes I noticed it would give me a few yellow spots and after a bit of time, those turned green. So, perhaps PP is thinking about it.

[MyerPj]

Ann, are you saying with a properly functioning GPU you will never see red?

[Ann Bens]

I would assume that.

Except for the non gpu acc effects/assets and too many stacked effects.

[MyerPj]

Drop in an h264 UHD clip and add Warp? I get red every time. And for sure a functioning RTX 4070. I think it's easy to see red even with a well functioning GPU and CPU.

[Ann Bens]

After analyzing/stabilizing its red?

(mind you, we are diverting from the original issue).

[MyerPj]

OK, but I don't see 'no red at all' as a proper goal. Or to start looking for GPU problems if a patch of red exists.

Here's a sequence I was just looking thru for another post, it only has one video layer and three audio layers, plus a transition.

[Ann Bens]

If this is the free/old impact roll it is not gpu acc.

You can check in the Effects Panel.

[Dad From Minnie]

Sorry for the incomplete information. I have a GEFORCE GTX 1650, drivers are upto date. I mainly use 4k video (3840x2160(1.0), 48000hz 24 bit 8 channelo, 29.97 fps .mxf files generated by a sony fx6). To narrow the issues, I created a new project/sequence with a clip with no fx at all; it was yellow until I added one position keyframe and one scale keyframe... then it went RED. Then I copied in the clip from the original project/sequence (it had Lumetri color and several position and opacity keyframes, so nothing too taxing) and it was RED immediately. Cache is pointed to C:. I changed it to all other drives and tested each without effect.

If there are other details that would be helpful, please let me know.

I look forward to your suggestions.

[R Neil Haugen]

That GTX 1650, what, 4GB of vRAM? That is light by "modern" standards, especially for UHD timelines.

So that's a 6 core CPU, also ... adequate. But not ideal. I've got a 3960x Ryzen with 24 cores, 128GB of RAM, and a 2080Ti that's a later generation from yours,  and has 11BG of vRAM. And I'm looking at replacing that this spring.

As I don't do a lot of H.264 and am willing to proxy or t-code, I've gotten by decently without an Nvidia CPU with QuickSync. But in Resolve  ....I would definitely appreciate more vRAM. But getting significantly more than the 11GB I've got would be a chunk of change.

I'm not sure what would ve a cost-effective replacement though. There's always something else to think about.

[Dad From Minnie]

Yes 4GB of RAM on the graphics card. I appreciate that my setup hasn't been cutting edge for awhile, if it ever was, but what continues to strike me is the intermittent nature of this performance issue... Because when things are fine (YELLOW), it is lickity split fast, no slow-downs, no dropped frames. It's fantastic, really, so clearly the resources are capable of fast editing.

Adding to my suspicions is that fact that the performance of the previous version of PP was REALLY slow. The next version (my current version, I believe) was touted as being 5-times faster, so clearly they had some performance issues. It seems reasonable that they may still have something going on that might confuse PP into not taking advantage of available resources, leaving me with an intermittent RED indicator.

If this is happening to me, it may be happening to many others and the solution may not necessarily require more resources.

I look forward to your suggestions.

[R Neil Haugen]

The 24.x version can be significantly faster on well ... "modern" hardware. Though not all even modern hardware.

And the intermittent nature is totally dependent on what system resources are committe to use at the time of playback, which does vary constantly. So not at all unusual, especially when your kit is on the edge of adequate to maybe slightly above adequate. Been there done that.

[Dad From Minnie]

I hear you and understand how complicated it all can be under the hood. Remember that I was seeing this variance (RED or YELLOW) in the same session minutes apart and nothing was changing except that I was opening and closing projects to try generate YELLOW. 

So, I am not giving up on the idea that there is a bug here, but what upgrade are you suggesting would be most impactful. GPU or CPU?.

I  look forward to your suggestions.

[Dad From Minnie]

Also, until the last upgrade, I had no issues.  So, it's kind of suspicious to me... Things usually don't just happen. The big thing that HAS changed isn't my hardware or how I am using my software or the type of media I have, but the version of PP.

[MyerPj]

It might be time to consider using Proxies.

Here's a good tutorial on that... just be sure you do not use h.264 proxies, it defeates the purpose. I prefer ProRes Proxy format. They work really well in Premiere as does the proxy workflow.

https://creativecloud.adobe.com/cc/learn/premiere-pro/web/proxy-media?locale=en

[Dad From Minnie]

I have considered using proxies, but I hate to add more overhead to my process. For now it's solved by running at 1/2 playback resolution.

Worse case, I will upgrade my hardware although that seems unneccessary when the system graces me with YELLOW.

Mainly, I hope dev finds a bug and solves the problem for all of us.

[R Neil Haugen]

If 1/2 playback works, fine. What works, works, right?

But properly chosen proxies lower the "weight" of the processing on the system, which is why they are used. Using an interframe codec like ProRes where every frame is complete is vastly easier on the system than computing intraframe codec clips used in timelines. Even if the file is actually bigger for file-size than the original.

[JonesVid]

I saw this post and it started reminding me of timeline issues and loss of rendered Pro Res files. Using ProRes files is fine as long as a user doesn't start encountering the issues I experienced with Pro Res see post

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/losing-render-files/m-p/14344236#M487116

You will then have patches of red bar in your timeline where Premiere Pro has lost your previously rendered Pro Res files.

I've still had no formal response to this problem from Adobe engineering even though Kevin Monahan  agreed he saw the problem as well and raised an internal bug report. Bad  !

[JonesVid]

My apology - should be this link :

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/some-prores-422-video-preview-files-lost-on-closing...