AVCHD Workflow help

[Prof-McAlexander]

Hello all,

I will be migrating to Premiere Pro CS6 from FInal Cut Pro 7 starting this fall for all of my video production classes.  I need some guidance on workflow. 

We currently shoot on Sony NX70u which uses the AVCHD codec producing .MTS files.  I've been working with the native AVCHD files on PP CS6 for a few days now to get acquainted with the workflow and performance on our Macs (some iMacs and some Mac Pro towers) and so far so good.  My question:

I know PP CS6 will work with the native AVCHD files, but I'm worried about performace issues with my Macs.  Is there any reason to transcode the AVCHD files to another codec before editing in PP?  I guess I'm still in the Final Cut Pro-Log and Transfer mode of thinking about files

Cheers,

Micheal

[excited_Genie16B8]

I used media encoder to change it to a MPEG avi. Basically changed the "wrapper".

Couple of things.

First, I don't believe AME is capable of creating an AVI file using the MPEG codec.  And second, pretty much everything AME does will transcode the footage.  It's not really capable of just rewrapping it to a new container without transcoding.

[ACT.onn]

Jim Simon wrote:

Couple of things.

First, I don't believe AME is capable of creating an AVI file using the MPEG codec.  And second, pretty much everything AME does will transcode the footage.  It's not really capable of just rewrapping it to a new container without transcoding.

Hmmm... that is strange...

Here is a screen of gspot reading the AVI file I made from the MTS file giving me trouble.

I don't know what else to say...

I should say that this worked. When I used encoder to transcode the file to an AVI the problem went away. The new file works in the project in place of the original.

Here is a screen shot of the new video file playing in a media player.

[excited_Genie16B8]

screen of gspot reading the AVI file

Ah, Xvid.

That's not a native format available to Adobe Media Encoder.  It's something you added.

[excited_Genie16B8]

is UFF for Upper Field First

It is.

[Blind Monk]

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Link for bug report. Please do fill out!

[ACT.onn]

Done.

ACT.onn's Bug Report:

"Premiere Pro is showing green frames in a clip that resides on a multicamera final sequence. The sequence is set to AVCHD and the footage on it is AVCHD files in MTS file format.

The offending footage plays fine in any media player tried but Premiere loads the project and the clip and in every timeline the clip appears it is green.

Create a project.

Create a sequence.

Import Clips.

Clips are organized into separate folders on hard drive and in the project based on the camera that recorded the video.

Place the clips on a video track using 1 track for 1 camera. Stack the footage from another camera on a new track on the second track. Repeat with the footage from the third camera.

Using audio visual clues find points where you can match up the clips from each camera and synchronize the footage. Repeat this until all 3 tracks and all clips are matched and in sync.

Create a new multicamera sequence based on the synchronized footage sequence.

Using the multicamera monitor create edits. Save the project and come back the next day. Find green frames in the first use of the second tracks first clip at the first 38 seconds of the 32 minute project. Cry.

Expected results were that the clip would not turn green like the Hulk and you could continue to fine tune edits and eventually dynamically link the sequence to an Encore DVD project where you would create menus and chapters and publish a Wedding DVD for the client.

Currently working to see if a different encoding of the offending clip would allow Premiere to handle the clip so as to allow fine tuning of the multicamera edit.

Praying that the remaining clips from 2 of the cameras used, both create AVCHD MTS files, will not have the same problem or this user will end up having to buy a few more Terabyte drives to store all the footage in an uncompressed file format.

If there is anything more you need to know please email"

[Trent Happel]

For those that are having poor playback with .mov wrapped AVCHD files, could you try something? After you import your file(s), could you quit Premiere, then launch again and select a new Project and import the file(s) again. At this point, does the file now play back without dropping frames? We have seen some cases where when we first import .mov wrapped AVCHD files that we are importing via QuickTime, which results in performance issues. Once it's been imported, it gets stamped with xmp which when imported again on a relaunch of Premiere will allow us to import via MPEG and produce much better performance.

[ACT.onn]

Trent Happel wrote:

For those that are having poor playback with .mov wrapped AVCHD files, could you try something?

And for those of us with poor performance with MTS files?

[Blind Monk]

Trent Happel wrote:

For those that are having poor playback with .mov wrapped AVCHD files, could you try something? After you import your file(s), could you quit Premiere, then launch again and select a new Project and import the file(s) again.

I'm working on testing this now.

1) Wait for peak files to be generated I assume?

2) Also, just for my own knowledge, is the XMP data you're talking about being written to the MOV wrapped AVCHD file or a sidecar?

EDIT:

Just tested and this doesn't seem to help or hurt the cause for my test subjects - status quo. Back to CS5.5 for now.

Message was edited by: Blind Monk

[Trent Happel]

Blind Monk wrote:

Trent Happel wrote:

For those that are having poor playback with .mov wrapped AVCHD files, could you try something? After you import your file(s), could you quit Premiere, then launch again and select a new Project and import the file(s) again.

I'm working on testing this now.

1) Wait for peak files to be generated I assume?

2) Also, just for my own knowledge, is the XMP data you're talking about being written to the MOV wrapped AVCHD file or a sidecar?

EDIT:

Just tested and this doesn't seem to help or hurt the cause for my test subjects - status quo. Back to CS5.5 for now.

Message was edited by: Blind Monk

Darn it. I was hoping we had a wpossible workaround. Thank you for trying this out.

[philb1964]

Hi, I am have a massive problem with CS6 that I hope you can fix, as the same workflow works fine in CS5. I have reported it as a bug but does anyone else have this problem?

*New computer system latest i7 processor, 16 gig DDR3 ram, NVidia CUDA4000 card, Matrox MXO minimax. SATA3 drives for C-Boot & F-media.

*All card media copied to Sata3 hard drive (separate folder for each card)

Situation:

I import my Sony NX5 clips via media browser (1920x1080 50i) - No problem, it spans longer clips fine - this makes up 90% of project media.

I import my JVC  GYHM100 clips via media browser (1440x1080 50i) - No problem, it spans longer clips fine - this makes up 10% of project media - (spare camera).

I create the edit on the timeline - basic 1 / 2 channel video, mixes (CTRL+D) no problem, everything looks lovely and runs much smoother than on my CS5 system - very happy....

BUT... when I go to create a DVD through Encore CS6 (using the Adobe Dynamic link & Automatic setting in DVD encoding), the result has intermittent jitters on random clips, some during straight cut edits, others (and more frequently but no always) on Dissolves (various lengths from 30-60 frames), be it from AVCHD to AVCHD or AVCHD to MP4.

I tried exporting to an AVI from Premiere & importing to Encore but again there are jitters.

I tried rendering the entire sequence in Premiere before using the Dynamic link - this time better in some places that had jittered / stuttered before (video only - audio is always perfect) BUT again same problem in other places.

I tried setting a custom render of 4mbps single pass in Encore CS6 but still no good.

My final solution / workaround was to write the whole project to a removable disc and copy it to my CS5 system, import the CS6 project into a CS5 project, use the Adobe Dynamic link in Encore CS5 to create the DVD.

THE RSEULT WAS PERFECT!

On closer inspection I noticed that the media encoder and encore settings in CS6 seem to have lower field first on all their settings, even when it says use project settings, which is interlaced PAL. Isn't PAL upper field first? Could this be the bug?

Please help as this is workaround is not acceptable for a product that worked fine as CS5 but now doesn't in CS6!

Philip Beasley

[ACT.onn]

Philip

Have you defragged your hard drive? What speed is the drive? 5400 or 7200? Is it set up in RAID? How large are the video files?

Are the cameras PAL by default?

Did you just ignore the jitters and try to get a final DVD from the CS6 project? Sometimes after a long work session a computer can get "tired" and needs either a reboot or a little time shutoff. These jitters might affect the preview of your work, but they won’t affect the final DVD.

This will sound stupid but have you cleaned your computer lately? I mean have you blown it out so there is no dust clogging fans? If not, maybe your computer is slightly overheating. I cleaned mine out this weekend and now it is quieter than I remember. Also my core temps are down 10 degrees and I assume the clean hard drives will have less heat to deal with as well.

If you can produce a DVD and it works as expected it might just be that encore is being hard on the computer in question. I know that may seem weird, but I have seen computers slow down for now reason at all.

And I don’t know if the mercury render engine translates into encore's playback which might be another reason for the jitters.

Finally sometimes it is better to render the video and import it rather than dynamic link it into encore. I have had a few projects that slowed down and so I rendered the video before adding it to the project. I actually had one project corrupted by the dynamic link, but that was a couple of years ago at least. Hopefully that bug was ironed out a while ago.

Remember AVCHD is a high bit rate video file type and that the amount of data running through the processor is huge. You might want to find the premier pro computer tweak guide. I don’t remember where it is, but Google should be able to help.

[philb1964]

Hi Act.onn, the problem is in the encoding. The files play beautifully in Prem CS6 timeline, all clips, all dissolves, perfect - it is when I create the DVD or Blu-Ray the jitters come in!

The automatic DVD setting on Encore CS6 is greyed out to Lower Field First, so don't know how to change it. I shoot and edit in Pal which was by default always upper field, but with HD this may be different?

Yes I tried exporting the Timeline to an avi but the jitters were also in that.

T Clark512: I believe CS5 encodes upper field first, but not sure as I use the automatic setting in Encore to get it to fit as I'm encoding from a HD source.

The CS6 computer is brand new, a copy of my CS5 machine but better - newer ram / processor, so the drives are fresh (SATA3).

I'm going to add another boot drive to the new system and put CS5 on it, reboot into it and see if the machine encodes the CS6 project import on this machine. If it does, then it's definately either CS6 media encoder or Encore CS6.

As so many corporate cameras use AVCHD and because working natively in AVCHD is one of Adobe's big selling points, I REALLY hope they get this sorted!

[Harm_Millaard]

The automatic DVD setting on Encore CS6 is greyed out to Lower Field First, so don't know how to change it. I shoot and edit in Pal which was by default always upper field, but with HD this may be different?

SD DV is LFF by default, HD is UFF by default. Matrox is the exception here: SD DV with Matrox is UFF.

To avoid field reversal, keep LFF as LFF and UFF as UFF. If the option is greyed out, use a custom setting.

[randymcwilson2012]

Has Adobe provided any estimation of when the AVCHD long format bug will be corrected? I thought it was supposed to be corrected in the last update. Any news?

[ExactImage]

Not that I am aware of.  I'm a little concerned that they said they could only recreate it on 'some' canon footage.  I hope it doesn't slip down the priority list because they don't think it's widespread.

[philb1964]

Harm, on your advice I have tried writing to Encore CS6 using a custom upper field first setting and it seems to work! Will also be updating the Matrox CS6 software to see if this cures it. For now it's a workaround - if this is is only way to go I will miss the Automatic setting in Encore which made a large HD file / or files fit perfectly onto a DVD-R 5 disc, but better a good disc a bit over compressed than none at all!

[tclark513]

On closer inspection I noticed that the media encoder and encore settings in CS6 seem to have lower field first on all their settings, even when it says use project settings, which is interlaced PAL. Isn't PAL upper field first? Could this be the bug?

How is CS5 working with fields?  Does it work with Upper First?

[Guest]

I have been working on the problem some more and have found a workaround. I have created in Encore a VBR single pass UPPER FIELD that encodes OK, although it is a pain when creating a DVD from various Dynamic link timelines to get the calculations right so it is not too big for the disc.

As far as I can tell it's Adobe using Lower Field in the Automatic setting that is the problem. I shoot PAL 1080i which is upper field. PAL is upper field, NTSC is lower field, so as far as I can see Encore is trying to create a hybrid NTSC 25fps encode, which just ain't right! HD Blu-ray encodes in automatic upper field first and it's perfect.

So please Adobe, give us a way to set the field preference in the automatic encode in encore and life will be good again!

BTW I am having no problem at all with spanned AVCHD clips in CS6 (Sony NX5 camera shooting 1080i PAL)

[excited_Genie16B8]

I have been working on the problem

Umm...that problem doesn't seem at all related to this thread, which concerns PP's ability to handle spanned AVCHD media.

[excited_Genie16B8]

No, that didn't really do anything.

[ExactImage]

I just checked on the Mac too and no difference there either.

[ZachRosing]

Add me to the list having trouble w/ AVCHD files. I just finished a project with two tracks of DV and one of AVCHD (all in a DV timeline), originally started in CS5 and finished in CS6 and had no problems at all. Takes that are 1hr+, clips that are broken up into at most 24 minute segments (once it hit 4gb). I was actually thrilled that CS6 had such snappier performance.

But today I start another project, 1 track of DV and 1 of AVCHD, similar file lengths, and I'm having all sorts of trouble with media pending, no video and only audio, frozen images. Sometimes if I sit long enough it'll catch back up. It's just my AVCHD files, and not all of them do it, or some don't do it as bad. Or parts of the file will be ok but the beginning or end causes trouble.

Until this is fixed I either can't use CS6 or I have to waste hours transcoding all this footage into a different file format before using it (which I'm doing w/ CS5, cause Media Encoder in CS6 seems to be cranky with it too). Adobe, when can we expect a fix for this? PLEASE don't tell me CS6.5...

[NielsPr]

I just tried to use PP6 with AVCHD for the first time and had no luck.   Clips play for a few seconds and then get completely stuck.   This is video from a Canon HF G10.    Prelude had the same issues, too.

Niels.

[jrobba3]

I'm having the same issue.  I'm shooting with a Panasonic AF-100, and at this point I'm still using Final Cut to transcode my footage so I can have audio.  I've also noticed the video jumps around even when it does have audio.  Prelude has been extremely problematic for me, and it doesn't have a way to bring in clips that returned errors upon importing, I have to write down the clip numbers and bring them in individually.  I've also tried just dropping the file structure from the card straight to the hard drive.  It's a huge problem, and is keeping me from making the switch fully from FCP 7.

-Joe