AVCHD Workflow help

[Prof-McAlexander]

Hello all,

I will be migrating to Premiere Pro CS6 from FInal Cut Pro 7 starting this fall for all of my video production classes.  I need some guidance on workflow. 

We currently shoot on Sony NX70u which uses the AVCHD codec producing .MTS files.  I've been working with the native AVCHD files on PP CS6 for a few days now to get acquainted with the workflow and performance on our Macs (some iMacs and some Mac Pro towers) and so far so good.  My question:

I know PP CS6 will work with the native AVCHD files, but I'm worried about performace issues with my Macs.  Is there any reason to transcode the AVCHD files to another codec before editing in PP?  I guess I'm still in the Final Cut Pro-Log and Transfer mode of thinking about files

Cheers,

Micheal

[ExactImage]

ZachRosing wrote:

I've said it before--I think the only thing that might make Adobe listen is a lawsuit. Companies are sued every day for much less than this.

Unfortunately it's going to require a lawyer willing to take this on and try to make it a class action.  As many people are outside the USA, and Adobe is a USA company, it's probably going to take a few USA people to get this going.

The problem for many is that while they purchased the software (license) sat at their office / home computer, the way the internet law currently works is that the actual contract is made in some overseas territory because that's where the server was located.  That makes it hard to sue the local Adobe office. 

The best you could hope for is a refund.  What I actually want more than a refund is a FIX.

[Film_Professor]

I might suggest a basic consumer complaint. http://www.usa.gov/topics/consumer/complaint.shtml

[Jim_Simon]

I bought a Panasonic GH2, I found the software I paid for and expected to work as advertised, does not work.

Media from the GH2 actually works fine in PP.  It does not suffer from this bug, so if you're having an issue, something else is going on.  If you start a new thread, we may be able to help you sort if out.

[rkeditor2112]

I have filed my bug report.

Kevin, I know you are advocating a fix for us, and thank you.  Other than submitting bug reports, is there anything else we can do to help?

If I were Adobe, I'd be embarrassed.  If I were a project manager, or a decision maker on the Adobe Premiere Pro CS6 team, I would be a little bit ashamed.

I say a little bit because the product is stellar.  Easy to use, incredibly powerful, and very few bugs.  I really think it is the best editor out there (until you get into AVID editing with its own incredible requirements).

But this bug, not being able to edit HD video files.  It is hard to understand how a bug like this is introduced.  The inability to edit video files from reasonably common cameras is an inexcusable error.  It is also disrespectful to all those who have purchased your product to suggest they need to buy a newer version when the previous version works with these files well.  There was no notice to say "The ability to edit AVCHD files in CS6 has been degraded."  We assumed capabilities in CS5 would be available in CS6.

Asking people to upgrade to CC is not an honorable solution to this problem.  For me, I spent $1500 on Production Premium.  I don't have an older version of CS to use to transcode my video.  I don't have any more money to purchase a monthly license.  I'm sure CC is very nice, but I can't walk away from the investment that I made to purchase CS6.

PP CS6 is a fine product, and you can see that many people took a lot of time and care to make it a beautiful product.  Adobe management should give the PP CS6 team the resources needed to fix this blight on this otherwise good software, correct this error, and do right by the people who have stood by this product over the past year of this thread.

Adobe, I have submitted my bug request along with many others.

We hope you will do the right thing.

[Jim_Simon]

There was no notice to say "The ability to edit AVCHD files in CS6 has been degraded."

There kind of was, once it was discovered.

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

[Stan Jones]

Media from the GH2 actually works fine in PP.  It does not suffer from this bug,

I assume from the context that GH2 is AVCHD, and that spanned clips from that camera do not show the bug. So what is the actual bug? If it is not spanned AVCHD clips, what is it?

Do we know that the GH3 also does not show the bug?

Kevin, what is the bug? If the problem has at least been defined, what is it?

[Jim_Simon]

Steven has reported the GH3 also is immune.

The bug affects some spanned media.  If memory serves, even some spanned XDCAM clips suffer from it.  If that's correct, it's not codec dependant.  It's just the spanning aspect.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

It would be fun to know exactly which cameras are affected.

[rkeditor2112]

Yeah, that's true.  But putting it on the box to say "Before opening this software, please be sure to check this listing of data we can't properly process"

Jim Simon wrote:

There was no notice to say "The ability to edit AVCHD files in CS6 has been degraded."

There kind of was, once it was discovered.

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

[rkeditor2112]

I'm not having a problem with spanned media.

In my example, I recorded in full HD, on a Canon HFS20.

The camera will break apart files at the 2G mark.  The file I am using is 1.3G.

So spanned media... not an issue here.

Here is my stats if you want them.  The thread I created (and linked to below) is somewhat useless now that I know this one exists.

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1216009

[Jim_Simon]

So spanned media... not an issue here.

Well...you wouldn't know yet.  Not until you get a single clip that's broken into multiple files over 2GB.

[David McGavran]

Hi All,

My name is David McGavran, I am the Senior Engineering Manager on Premiere Pro.   We are aware of the issue and are able to reproduce it.    We are currently investigating what we can do about it.   We apologize for the issues and hope to be able to give guidance soon.   I will continue to check back in here and update you guys as we have more information.

Cheers

Dave

[LanceTJ53]

Stan Jones wrote:

Media from the GH2 actually works fine in PP.  It does not suffer from this bug,

I assume from the context that GH2 is AVCHD, and that spanned clips from that camera do not show the bug. So what is the actual bug? If it is not spanned AVCHD clips, what is it?

Do we know that the GH3 also does not show the bug?

Kevin, what is the bug? If the problem has at least been defined, what is it?. 

.

A great many GH2 users have hacked their camera, and not longer record in AVCHD.   Anyone with a GH2 would be silly to use AVCHD, since a number of the hacks are quite reliable, and enhance image quality from the GH2 significantly,

The GH3 has new MOV recording options:  IPB at 50Mbps and All-Intra at 72Mpbs.  And those are the formats that most serious users are using on the GH3. 

[LanceTJ53]

Jim Simon wrote:

There was no notice to say "The ability to edit AVCHD files in CS6 has been degraded."

There kind of was, once it was discovered.

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

Actually, the wording on the notice shoud read:

"Trying to edit AVCHD video with spanned files in CS6 will frustrate you immensely, and make you think that your computer has turned into an old worn out piece of junk."

.

[GAPmedia]

I could not agree more with LanceTJ53 and the rest of you. 

For the last three weeks I have been troubleshooting my brand new PC, custom built like a textbook description of Premiere Pro CC's recomended specs.  As you descibed, my brand new NLE is running like a "old worn out piece of junk."  It has completely ground my work to a stop and projects are disastrously behind schedule.  No, honestly, there is no schedule anymore...

I WANT TO SINCERELY THANK ALL OF YOU on this board for your efforts advocating a solution for this problem.  Especially, I want to thank you for giving detailed descriptions of the problem so people like me don't have to continue going inane spending days and days disassembling and re-assembling computer components to trouble shoot and re-installing windows and adobe software. 

And all along, I was doing all my trouble shooting with spanned AVHCD MTS files from our brand new Canon XA10 cameras. 

I AM SHOCKED THAT ADOBE HASN'T ISSUED A STATEMENT ABOUT THIS!!!  I followed specs from the Adobe and Canon sites to the T, to put together what is advertised to be a great multi-cam, native editing workflow. 

My experience was exactly what LanceTJ53 described.  Since we moved from FCP 7, everything on our Adobe workflow is JUNK! 

David McGavran & Kevin Monahan,

You have to realize that anyone who tries to use Premiere with these (very common) AVHCD MTS files will experience Premiere to be an unusable piece of junk.  In my case, after spending weeks of trouble shooting and calling hardware manufacturers.  Because I have come to trust Adobe through my graphic and web background, dysfunctional software was actually one of the last things on my list to investigate.  Again, I am shocked to find that Adobe Premiere CC was the culprit here!  AND EVEN MORE SHOCKED TO FIND THAT ADOBE'S NON-DISCLOSURE OF THIS PROBLEM (WHICH HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED HERE ON THIS THREAD SINCE WAY BACK IN MAY OF 2012) IS WHAT CAUSED ME TO LOOSE 3 WEEKS OF WORK AND INVEST IN HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE KNOWN NOT TO WORK TOGETHER. 

What percentage of your customer base do you think is in this boat?  It must be at lease 10% - 20% who will experience the problem from one time to another considering the prominence of the format, and market share of the effected Canon and Sony cameras.  I even have a Panasonic DSLR that has the same problem. 

This must be disasterous for the reputation of Premiere as a viable industry standard NLE.  I can only imagine how many people don't go to the extensive search to find this solution and simply write off Premiere as unrelyable.

Finally, I want to put in a comment to people on this message board who are unhappy with having to so-called "rent" adobe software to get a solution which may only be offered to Creative Cloud subscrbers.  I am going to take the dangerous stance of going out on a limb in support of Adobe here.  So I hope they don't let me down.  IMHO adobe has been a company that has gone far to be customer contious and take account of the needs of people like us in the media production community.  I have spoken extensively with some higher level adobe licensing reps and I understand the Move to CC membership to be consistent with that committment.     

Since media is not static and production software is something that as media professionals we will be investing in upgrading every 3 years or so,  It seems that CC membership is a bit more cost effective.  And it certaly offers a broader set of features and collaborative tools.  That doesn't help for those of you who just purchased CS6.  However, I can't immagine that you will be left high and dry.  Adobe already has a fairly reasonable upgrade path to CC.

But, I sincerely hope and fully expect that that people who have purchased CS6 and have reported suffering from this problem will either be offered a further discounted or pro-rated upgrade to CC membership or receive a fix for the CS6 they purchased.

In any case, CS6 license owners can rest assured that they are not missing anything as of yet.  My Premiere CC is every bit as inept as yours with an AVHCD workflow.  I currently wish I could get my hands on a license to Premiere 5.5 for now.

To the Adobe reps David and Kevin, thank you for acknowledging the severity of this problem and keeping people updated.  I have submitted bug-fix and feature request forms and will add my self to the list of people urgently awating a fix for this problem.

[tclark513]

How do you have premiere CC? It's not available until the 17th.

[ZachRosing]

While we all share your frustration, in a small amount of Adobe defense, the problem has been acknowledged since last year:

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

[Jim_Simon]

I even have a Panasonic DSLR that has the same problem. 

Curious.  What model?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Jim Simon wrote:

I even have a Panasonic DSLR that has the same problem. 

Curious.  What model?

I was wondering the same.

GAPmedia,

So far, these cameras' media have been identified as

being affected by the known CS6 AVCHD footage bug:

CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras

And Media Types Are Affected?

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5389306#5389306

If you are willing to test your camera using the protocol

described in post #108 of the above linked thread,

you might be able to save others the grief you have endured.

[GAPmedia]

Just a Panasonic Lumix model.  Not up to the task of pro video.

[GAPmedia]

Thanks for the clarification.  What I should more accurately say is that I am a Creative Cloud member and I have the version that is currently available through Creative Cloud.

[GAPmedia]

But I just got (hopefully) the good news we're looking for.  I am flored to see how many people are watching this thread.  I just posted and got the responces here and a number of personal emails.  Thanks for the support. 

So I'm sure you'll want to hear this.  I just got this responce from my bug reporting. 

David McGavran, the Adobe Engineer Manager who replied earlier informed me that the long awaited fix will be out through the Creative Cloud on the 17th!!!

[LanceTJ53]

Well, we have known for quite some time that Adobe is fixing this issue in Premiere CC.

What people want to know is why no fix was ever released for Premiere Pro 6, when this problem was reported to Adobe so very long ago??

How does that constitute good customer service?

Just read Adobe Corporation's own Mission Statement.   There is nothing in it about showing dedication or loyalty to their customers.   Only a desire to increase shareholder value.

We are only numbers on a spreadsheet to them.

[Jim_Simon]

Just a Panasonic Lumix model.

Yes, but which one?

[GAPmedia]

We'll see how these play out here but Adobe's core values are listed below. 

At Adobe, four core values inform everything we do.  We are:

• Genuine: Sincere, trustworthy, and reliable
• Exceptional: Committed to creating exceptional experiences that delight our employees and customers
• Innovative: Highly creative and eager to connect new ideas with business realities
• Involved: Inclusive, open, and actively engaged with our customers, partners, employees, and the communities we serve

David McGavran's exact words were as follows. 

Thanks for the request.  We are aware of the issue and investigating how to address it for CS 6 customers.   It is fixed in Premiere Pro CC which is available on June 17th.

Implying that there will be a solution forth comming for CS6.  Since Adobe CC is a version upgrade, I might suggest that you advocate for a further discount for people suffering from this problem to simply transfer to Creative Cloud.  It is clear that Adobe hopes to migrate all of it's users to CC membership aneway.