AVCHD Workflow help

Report · May 14, 2012

Hello all,

I will be migrating to Premiere Pro CS6 from FInal Cut Pro 7 starting this fall for all of my video production classes. I need some guidance on workflow.

We currently shoot on Sony NX70u which uses the AVCHD codec producing .MTS files. I've been working with the native AVCHD files on PP CS6 for a few days now to get acquainted with the workflow and performance on our Macs (some iMacs and some Mac Pro towers) and so far so good. My question:

I know PP CS6 will work with the native AVCHD files, but I'm worried about performace issues with my Macs. Is there any reason to transcode the AVCHD files to another codec before editing in PP? I guess I'm still in the Final Cut Pro-Log and Transfer mode of thinking about files

Cheers,

Micheal

Report · May 08, 2013

Kevin, Keep up the good fight. I'm using 5.5 for my AVCHD footage until a fix is in. I can't see paying $360 a year! (I'm a professor) to upgrade when software I already licensed, in perpetuity, clearly should be working.

I know this is a bit off topic, but Adobe promised us a tick tock upgrades between CS .5 and .0 releases. Now, about a year or so later, that promise is broken and we are at the CC subscription model. I see so many potential problems that my head spins. I truly hope Adobe hears the outrage (the same sort I think when we face the Final Cut 7 to X debacle. ) I switched to Premiere because of FInal Cut Xs issues and I know a lot of us are thinking of switching again if we can't purchase perpetual licenses.

Doug

Report · May 08, 2013

Film Professor wrote:
Kevin, Keep up the good fight. I'm using 5.5 for my AVCHD footage until a fix is in. I can't see paying $360 a year! (I'm a professor) to upgrade when software I already licensed, in perpetuity, clearly should be working.
Doug

I hear you Doctor Doug! I won't rest until we get a fix for CS6. It's my number one priority for users.

Film Professor wrote:
I know this is a bit off topic, but Adobe promised us a tick tock upgrades between CS .5 and .0 releases. Now, about a year or so later, that promise is broken and we are at the CC subscription model.

There still may be updates to Premeire Pro CS6, if that's what you mean. We're waiting to hear right now.

Film Professor wrote:
I see so many potential problems that my head spins.

I'm sorry you see potential problems. Users that have already been on the Creative Cloud seem to really enjoy it. You can try the trial for CS6 now and CC when it comes out to see if it will work for you.

Film Professor wrote:
I truly hope Adobe hears the outrage (the same sort I think when we face the Final Cut 7 to X debacle. ) I switched to Premiere because of FInal Cut Xs issues and I know a lot of us are thinking of switching again if we can't purchase perpetual licenses.

Feel free to lodge a complaint to the team here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

I honestly think most people would love the Creative Cloud if they would only try it--but that is a very different topic.

Report · May 08, 2013

Kevin Monahan wrote:

I honestly think most people would love the Creative Cloud if they would only try it--but that is a very different topic.

I am sure that I would be perfectly happy with Creative Cloud - I have no real objection to the concept. The problem is I need only three applications, and I simply cannot justify the expense. Once you go beyond two applications, renting the whole shebang is cheaper - this is mad!

This is exacerbated as I live in Europe and as usual we are ripped off compared with you guys in the States. UK users are expected to pay a huge premium over USA prices.

Also a fully working Premiere CS6 would do all that I need, and I paid in full for that a year ago!

Report · May 18, 2013

Why did Adobe outsource getting this fix done? Why didn't you correct the code yourself??

And how on earth could you let this bug languish for so very long?

Do you not realize how badly this affects Adobe credibility??

How will people be able to trust Adobe anymore?

Report · May 18, 2013

But who are you fowarding this feedback to? To your developers and QA staff? They are not going to want to fix this. They are already busy hard at work on the next release. Feedback to them will go no where.

Does Shantanu Narayen have any idea at all how upset customers are over this issue?

I bet you $100 that he is not even aware that AVCHD editing is so badly broken in CS6 Premiere, much less how much customers are frustrated by Adobe ignoring this bug in the manner that the company has.

Report · May 18, 2013

" I'm trying very hard to plead your case to the team"

Kevin: No one on your "Team" is going to want to rock the boat.

Just how high up the management chain has this matter gone? is the CS6 Product Manager even aware of this issue?

What about Lambert Walsh? I would again be willing to wager you that this issue has not even been brought to his attention either.

Why don't you just admit to us that our feedback is going no where.

Report · May 18, 2013

"Kevin, Keep up the good fight."

Doug: What makes you believe that Kevin is making a "good fight" on our behalf??

His responses come across as being totally canned to me. And it certainly does not appear that he has done anything at all extraordinary on our behalf. He just tells people that they should post bug reports, and that he is giving additional feedback of his own and is lobbying his "team".

Well, you know what Doug? Kevin's "team" doesn't have any authority at all to do anything about this problem. None whatsoever.

I seriously doubt that anyone with any real decision making authority at Adobe is even aware that this bug in 6.0 has existed for all of this time.

Trust me, Adobe support is just giving us all a brush off here. It is clear that they have already decided long ago to not fix this bug.

Report · May 18, 2013

Given that the issue was corrected for the forthcoming Premiere Pro CC, it seems highly likely that someone in charge knows about it. (Otherwise it would not have been addressed there, either.)

Report · May 18, 2013

Well Jim Simon, if what you have surmised here is indeed true, then that only damns Abobe further in my eyes.

For that means that someone in management already made a judgement call earlier that the loss in revenue caused by customers being pissed off by this AVCHD bug and leaving Adobe because of it, would be less than what it would cost them to fix it in CS6.

The other factor here that will cause them to totally fail their CS6 customers on this issue is this: their developers are all currently hard at work on the upcoming software, which is due out very soon. And once it is released, they will then be busy working on bug fixes for it.

So it is way, way too late at this point for them to even consider fixing this bug at this late date. Kevin ( unless he is extremely young and naive ) most likely knows that too. And he is thus being totally disingenious with all of us here, by falsely claiming that there is still a possiblity of the bug being fixed at this late date.

Folks, it will never happen at this point in time. Let's face it: Abode did not care about all of the aggravation and frustration that this issue has caused us.

They are clearly not a customer centered company.

Report · May 18, 2013

Jim: Here is some evidence to futher prove my point that Adobe is not customer centered. Just take a moment to read their corporate mission statement here on this web page:

http://globalconnectionsmba.blogspot.com/2008/10/adobe-vision-mission-statement.html

Just look at all of the emphasis in their mission statement about goals for "achieving and maintaining an above-average return on investment for shareholders"

What mention is there in the mission statement about valuing their customers? Answer is NONE. There is just a short little reference about wanting to do well in "customer satisfaction surveys".. No statement at all about actually caring about their customers, much less making any sort of committment to serving their needs, as many other companies put in their mission statements.

It could not be more clear folks. Adobe as a company is totally focused on the bottom line, and nothing else.. There is not a single word in their mission statement about maintaining integrity or their reputation.

In my opinion, this lack of empathy for customers has got to be driven by the highest levels of Adobe management.

Report · May 19, 2013

Take a look at the "about" box on Premiere Pro CS6. It shows a plethora of engineers and QA engineers. Are we're supposed to beleive that not one of them tested a long AVCHD clip from either Sony or Canon cameras during the CS6 design and QA process?

Are we supposed to beleive that not one of the prgrammers or QA people at which ever company supplies the codec never tried a long Sony or Canon AVCHD clip prior to release?

C'mon, Sony & Canon are two of the largest camera manufacturors and no one tested footage from their cameras?

What is more, we're told that it required an "architecture change" to fix it, but we're not clear if there was also an architecture change between CS5.5 and CS6.0 that broke it. I'm wondering if the 'architecture change' is somewhat of a smoke screen. Frankly an architecture change shouldn't become my problem, but it has, and that's not acceptable.

Another BUG they haven't fixed is the "TickTime.cpp-207" problem when ever you use Warp Stabilizer. I have some projects that require me to click OK more than 100 times each time I start the program. That's no more acceptable than the AVCHD bug. Please don't tell me it's fixed in some version I can only "rent", it also needs to be fixed in the version I already paid for.

And no point telling me to fill in "another" bug report, it's been reported so many times Adobe needed to buy a bigger rug to sweep all the bug reports under.

I'm pretty mad right now. No fix unless you "rent it".

Report · May 19, 2013

This is the feeling on just one web site about needing to go to CC. Just 12 out of 360 people think CC is a good idea..... yet Adobe are trying to FORCE us in to it by telling us the critical bugs they should have fixed in CS6 (like AVCHD and TickTime) can be 'rented' in CC.

C'mon Adobe, step up to the plate here and do your duty to your customers, who are the people that actually pay the wages and the shareholders.

Report · May 19, 2013

someone in management already made a judgement call earlier that the loss in revenue caused by customers being pissed off by this AVCHD bug and leaving Adobe because of it, would be less than what it would cost them to fix it in CS6.

Quite possibly. Being that Adobe is a publicly traded company and must follow certain rules about what it can and can't do when those decisions affect shareholder profits, it wouldn't surprise me at all. It's unfortunate, but that's one of the inherent drawbacks of a capitalist economy.

it is way, way too late at this point for them to even consider fixing this bug at this late date.

Not necessarily. Given that CS6 is frozen, but will still remain on sale indefinitely, there is now a financial motivation to correct the issue. Not everyone will want the Creative Cloud subscription, so it might make financial sense to correct the issue in CS6 to get those additional sales.

This is all speculation on my part. I don't actually work for Adobe and have no special knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes. My only point was that it's almost certain someone who makes decisions at Adobe knows about this bug.

Report · May 19, 2013

Just look at all of the emphasis in their mission statement about goals for "achieving and maintaining an above-average return on investment for shareholders"

You're preaching to the choir here, dude. I'm no fan of capitalism. I'd much prefer a Production based economy, where the only way to get money is to produce something that has exchange value (labor, a service, a product, something) and then exchange it, either with a company for a paycheck or with the public directly for a sale. In such an economy, organizations would be more free to focus their primary efforts on servicing their various publics, and leave money as a secondary concern.

But that's a discussion for another forum.

Report · May 20, 2013

Do we know for sure that CS6 will continue to be sold? Was there a statement to that affect?

The fact that Adobe has already eliminated all sales except direct purchases of online downloads would imply to me that they have already begun the process of discontinuing it, and that it will most likely disappear completely in the near future.

.

Report · May 20, 2013

ExactImage wrote:
This is the feeling on just one web site about needing to go to CC. Just 12 out of 360 people think CC is a good idea..... yet Adobe are trying to FORCE us in to it by telling us the critical bugs they should have fixed in CS6 (like AVCHD and TickTime) can be 'rented' in CC.
This is part of my high level of upset over this matter too ExactImage. It would appear that Adobe may well be using these bugs to help leverage people into going with CC.
Oh well, I've probably vented too much at this point anyway. Besides, anything that we say here is not going to change anything. The die has clearly already been cast.
.

Report · May 20, 2013

As I recall, Adobe has stated they will continue to sell CS6 perpetual licenses (as download only) and will update it as required for the next major OS revision of both Windows and OSX. Of course when those revisions come they could say it's no possible, but I think the community will know whether that's true or not at that time.

Either way, they need to fix the bugs in CS6, because I already paid for it and didn't get a fully working product. It's close, and a couple of fixes (AVCHD and TickTime) would make me happy for now.

Report · May 20, 2013

As I recall, Adobe has stated they will continue to sell CS6 perpetual licenses (as download only) and will update it as required for the next major OS revision of both Windows and OSX.

I haven't seen anything like this so far. On the contrary, Adobe states they won't revise CS6 for any future platforms. Quote from CC FAQ:

For how long will Adobe continue to sell Creative Suite 6?We plan to sell Creative Suite 6 for use on supported platforms indefinitely. To learn more, visit: http://www.adobe.com/products/cs6.html.

Do Creative Cloud members have access to previous versions of Creative Cloud apps?
Yes. Creative Cloud paid members have access to a select set of archived versions of the desktop apps. Starting with CS6, select versions of each of the desktop creative apps will be archived and available for download. Archived versions are provided "as is" and are not updated to work with the latest hardware and software platforms.

Report · May 20, 2013

From the document you link to :

If I own CS5/CS5.5 Design Premium or CS5/CS5.5 Web Premium, can I upgrade to CS6 Design & Web Premiu...: Yes, you can upgrade from the CS5 or CS5.5 version of Design Premium or Web Premium to CS6 Design & Web Premium.

Report · May 20, 2013

Ah, thanks

Report · May 20, 2013

ExactImage wrote:
Take a look at the "about" box on Premiere Pro CS6. It shows a plethora of engineers and QA engineers. Are we're supposed to beleive that not one of them tested a long AVCHD clip from either Sony or Canon cameras during the CS6 design and QA process?
Are we supposed to beleive that not one of the prgrammers or QA people at which ever company supplies the codec never tried a long Sony or Canon AVCHD clip prior to release?
C'mon, Sony & Canon are two of the largest camera manufacturors and no one tested footage from their cameras?

Exactimage,

Best not to speculate about this stuff as it will just drive you crazy. Software engineering is just like that sometimes. I've been an editor for years before I came into the software business, and I found that not everthing operates like you think it should.

Again, as I've said a number of times before, all we can do file a bug report and see if the team can give us a fix. Sorry I can't be more specific.

Thanks,

Kevin

Report · May 20, 2013

ExactImage wrote:
yet Adobe are trying to FORCE us in to it by telling us the critical bugs they should have fixed in CS6 (like AVCHD and TickTime) can be 'rented' in CC.

Hi Exactimage,

I've told you about the circumstances of this bug before. It would take a Herculean effort to fix. To say we're holding a fix back to force you onto Creative Cloud is completely untrue. Very sorry this continues to be a big issue for you, though. We do know how important it is to fix.

Best,

Kevin

Report · May 20, 2013

Kevin, I can apreciate your frustration on this, since you don't appear to have the power to get it fixed.

It appears we've gone in opposite directions. I spent 25+ years in software engineering, with large projects I've personally written being used by many large international corporations, including Microsoft, Apple, HP, Sony, HBO and yes, even Adobe (and these I know for a fact).

So, I know exactly how software engineering and QA works, which is why it's soooo frustrating. I totally understand that bugs creep in, but I never once left a fundamental bug like this linger. Not once.

I just hope that 'someone' gets to grip with this soon without us being forced to rent the solution (which I refuse to do).

I guess you know where I stand, so I'll stop moaning for a while. i just hope we aren't still in this situation in "another" six months. After all, we all just want what we paid for to "work" as advertised.

Good luck Kevin.

Report · May 20, 2013

What is so baffling to us is that the codec worked fine in 5.5, and is reputed to be fixed in CC. So why is 6 the odd one out? The main problem here, and I don't think you can ultimately help Kevin, beyond what you've done, is help us find 'remedy' in the legal sense. I upgraded to 6.0 and it worked fine with Canon DSL-R footage. When I bought a Panasonic GH2, I found the software I paid for and expected to work as advertised, does not work. I called customer support to see if they would offer a refund or free upgrade. Of course they said no. My question is where do we turn to now for help?

Report · May 20, 2013

I've said it before--I think the only thing that might make Adobe listen is a lawsuit. Companies are sued every day for much less than this.

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AVCHD Workflow help