BUG: Use Previews....Doesn't Use Previews.

[scrozier]

This workflow has been broken for a long time and I would really love to fix this one. I know this used to be on uservoice but I can't find the old bug. 

Steps:

1. Set sequence preview file to "Apple ProRes 422HQ" or whatever your favorite is. 

2. Render Sequence to full green.

3. Go to Export, Select an H.264 preset, check "use previews"

4. Watch as PrPro doesn't acess a single preview on disk and instead renders the whole timeline from scratch. 

From my current example I have a .png sequence from blender than I've rendered to green in the timeline.

Export->H.264, use previews checked...

Look at windows resource monitor, why is premiere chewing up PNGs when it should just be referencing the preview files I JUST RENDERED. 

.aecache files being acessed for no reason. 

.png sequence being read. WHY. 

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Thx @R Neil Haugen - I will re-post this issue as an "Idea" there.  I'm taking note that this very discussion is already flagged as a "Bug" and not a "discussion".  

I'm inferring here that @Kevin-Monahan doesn't feel this qualifies as a bug, b/c the current functionality fits the current expectation at Adobe.  But to my point articulated above, if I accept that framing of the issue, there is still a logical incongruity between the interface and that the functionality; I don't see how we don't have some kind of bug here, of some stripe - either previews should be used on alternative codec exports when the "use previews" box is checked, or the "use previews" checkbox should gray out / go away / un-check itself on alternative codec exports. Surely we can agree that the interface saying something is happening that is not actually happening is a bug of some kind, right?

[Ryan Fritzsche]

This is an issue which several of us feel strongly is a BUG. But in the below discussion about it, posted under "Bugs" on the forum, @Kevin-Monahan has advised us that this is currently considered the proper function of Premiere.  However, as @scrozier highlights, this is in contrast to what the manual says and what a number of us who have used Premiere for a decade can absolutely attest is not how it used to work.  

Please read this to understand the nuance of this feature request / restoration:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/bug-use-previews-doesn-t-use-previews/idc-p/1369485...

Here is a summary of what I'm asking for:

When I export a sequence, and check "Use Previews" under the "General" tab in the export dialogue/pane, I would like the export to actually USE the previews as its source for transcoding or compresion, regardless of what the destination codec or format is to which I am exporting.  I fully recognize the potential for double-compression or the degradation of quailty if the format of my previews is low or otherwise beneath the export codec.  However, the ability to control that ought to be the point of un-checking the "Use Previews" box. The ability to use those previews, even if the resulting quality suffers, is a vital and important functionality for my workflows, where I end up doing many low-res, H.264 exports of my projects prior to mastering at full-quality.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Currently, there is an incongruity in the interface.  If it is indeed by design that Premiere will NOT use previews unless the export codec/format matches those previews, then the "use previews" box should be grayed out, or unchecked, or dissappear, when the selected export codec doesn't match the previews.  Becuase currently, if I check the "Use previews" box, and they are in fact NOT being used becaue I happen to select a different export codec from the previews, the software is effectively telling me something that is happening that isn't and that's confusing at the very least, although I would call it a bug.  Anyway,  I still want to actually be able to control whether or not previews are being used, regardless of export format, but either way, something needs to happen here.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Ok guys, I've posted it here as an "Idea":

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/export-quot-use-previews-quot-no-longer-performs-as...

[scrozier]

Ok I had some time this morning and I was digging around and found this workaround:

I still consider this a bug.

Basically if you want it to use previews the "old way" you have to send your sequence to Media Encoder and make sure "import seqeunces natively" is un-checked. 'PrProHeadless.exe" For whatever reason it actually respects the "use preveiws" checkbox regardless of output format and renders very fast.

Now I don't really want to be sending things to AME, we have a very problematic relationship so I would rather this just work as it should in PrPro. 

Very weird that the BG version of PrPro can see the flag, and the GUI front end one can not. 

@Francis-Crossman Are you able to look into any of this? 

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Thx @scrozier - of course it's not ideal but still better than nothing!

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi @scrozier - Hey there @Ryan Fritzsche 

Thanks for your comments. I apologize for not empathizing with your situation well enough. I wish I could do more.  I would like to assist you by advocating for this issue so that it can be addressed sooner. I'm doing my best behind the scenes to help you and others facing this issue. To start, I've asked the product team to respond to this issue, as they are the ones that can address this issue accordingly.

Thank you for providing all the info you have so far.

Nailing down the version as to when the issue began to occur might be a good starting point for devs assigned to investigating the issue. Since you have indicated that this began in 2018, that would be ~ v.11.0. Was that the time when things went wrong for you? Let me know.

Have a good weekend.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi @scrozier 

I still consider this a bug.

Basically if you want it to use previews the "old way" you have to send your sequence to Media Encoder and make sure "import seqeunces natively" is un-checked. 'PrProHeadless.exe" For whatever reason it actually respects the "use preveiws" checkbox regardless of output format and renders very fast.

By @scrozier

Nice! Thanks for reporting on this. I hope it holds some key to a fix. It is helpful that the issue is occurring in a current version of the software. Can you provide details on your system? Are you on macOS or PC? Which version of the OS? That info might also help them with a reproducible case.

Kevin

[scrozier]

@Kevin-Monahan  Its one of those things that you don't notice until you start noticing a slowdown so I can't be sure what version the bug was introduced. I know for a fact there were bug reports on UserVoice but they must not have reached the threshold for being logged. That would have helped me date the bug a little more closely but I know between 2018 and 2020. Not sure if there is an archive of those out there somewhere but one of them for sure lived at this address:  https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/38985541-bug-prpro-2020-exp...

As far as my system goes:

Processor AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3960X 24-Core Processor, 3800 Mhz, 24 Core(s), 48 Logical Processor(s)

RAM: 128 GB 

3 SSD

1: CC Programs OS etc. 

2. Media Cache

3. Scratch (most scratch items files etc, kept separatly from Project location unless I forget to check scratch disks *shakes fist angrily at dumb new import page*) 

Media files typically kept on internal raid 5 or fast usb disks. 

Operating System Windows v.10.0.22621.1

Video NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti v.31.0.15.3141
Audio Audioengine D1 v.10.0.22621.608
No conflicts to report.

Premiere Pro 23.2.0 (Build 69) (Nice) 

[Kevin-Monahan]

Cool, thanks mucho for the added info. I will add this new info to my internal advocacy for a bug fix. You've convinced me that it is, indeed, a bug and should be worked on. So happy to be wrong. If you'll be at NAB, I'll buy you a beer.

Kevin

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Thx @Kevin-Monahan!  If you need/want, here's my system specs:

MacPro 6,1, 8-core, Dual D700 (6GB) GPUs, 64 GB RAM. Mac OS 12.6.3. G-Studio 8-bay Thunderbolt RAID, where all media and previews live.  Have been running into the issue since at least late 2020.  I've observed the issue in at least Premiere 2021, 2022, and 2023, and going back several OS.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

One more comment on when it started... I think @scrozier is probably right about when it first appeared, and more attuned to the issue.  The projects I was focused on mainly in 2019 & 2020 didn't lead me to run into the issue as easily.  But it was definitely there by CC 2021 (that's v15, if I'm not mistaken?).

[Kevin-Monahan]

Thanks for the specs and the version info. I believe with the thread and info that @scrozier hipped us to, the team can make some headway on a bug fix. I think I owe you a beer too. I also upvoted. 🙂

Cheers,
Kevin

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Well now I wish I was gonna be at NAB!  But alas.  Thx for all your help and patience with griping users.  🙂

[scrozier]

Just wanted to drop in and say this is still not functioning from the main exporter in premiere 23.4.

[scrozier]

Just bumping this to say still no fix in 23.6. Still crossing my fingers. 

[Ryan Fritzsche]

@Kevin-Monahan do you have any updates on this one?

[MobyTrix]

While this worked for me in 23.6 (prores 422 HQ in sequence preview settings, then exporting to a prores 422 HQ file directly from premiere, would just copy from the previews and not re-render), it is now broken for me in 24.  Frustrating.

[ProgressivePictures]

Same for me, since 24 Premiere is not using my preview files to export.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Is it working for you in Beta? Let us know!

Thanks,

Kevin

[MobyTrix]

Kevin, I just tested with the beta as you suggetsed and the issue is still there.

This is really easy for Adobe to reproduce:  Use Quicktime Prores 422 HQ as the sequenece preview settings, then try to export using previews to exactly the same thing (quicktime, prores 422 hq).  This used to work in previous versions.  Can you fast-track this into the system somehow?

[scrozier]

Seems like there is a new bug related to use previews. Can you fix this new bug and also restore the old functionality where use previews was codec agnostic?  

[scrozier]

I had sort of abandoned hope for this but, I was troubleshooting an AME bug today and noticed that my exports were going really fast. Mind you this only works in AME. 

So I have a green rendered timeline full of AE comps to ProRes422LT, and sent to Media Encoder for na H.264 export with "use previews" checked and with "import native" turned off.

The renders went very fast, and when I checked resource monitor it was in fact using the .PRV folder and not working AE to re-render all the comps. 

So that old workaround seems like it might be working again. Weird that it only seems to work in AME and it still seems inconsistent overall. Of course the last render crashed for .... reasons. 

Still hoping they merge whatever the code is into a unified exporter that just works. I grow tired of all the use native / use headless prpro / Premiere VS AME circus just to get a fast and consistent export. 

[scrozier]

I was messing around with the Beta today and they removed "use previews" altogether in the export window when not using the "match sequence preview" preset. Frustrating... instead of restoring the old feature / or fixing the bug they just seem fit to remove it from the interface. I love shouting into the void. 

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Seriously?!