Edit / balance dialogue (inc FCP7 FR)

[Trevor_Asq]

I edit (& mix) a LOT of dialogue.

Mostly interviewer/interviewee 2 x mics where I can do the edit/balance based on waveforms.

I'm using the pen tool a lot, and have to switch tools between pen (to mark keyframes) and selection tool (to adjust horizontal bar between those keyframes).

Q1. Is there a key I can use to override one tool with the other, rather than having to toggle between pen & selection?

When losing sections (e.g. remove interviewers mic during answer)I typically will mark in & out around the section, then toggle the correct track selection, then delete. Kind of clunky compared to Avid for track selection but works. (Also blade & delete at times)

In FCP7 there was a 'range selection tool' which was FANTASTIC for this kind of editing. Basically you could highlight a section of a clip (with in/out or mouse drag) and delete.

Q2. Am I missing any great PP tricks for this kind of editing/mixing?

Thanks

[excited_Genie16B8]

I do similar work in a slightly different way.  Might be easier.

Set the overall volume for the track.  Go though and cut out the parts you don't want using Cut and Delete.  If the parts you keep need further adjustments, you can move the whole line, no keyframes needed.

[Trevor_Asq]

Thanks Jim, I do indeed do some cutting, but often it is conversational style, so neater to balance with keyframing.

[Warren Heaton · Accepted solution]

A1: If you're using the Mac version, use the Command key while the Selection Tool is selected to add a keyframe then drag to vertically adjust the connector line between keyframes.  On Windows, this should be the Control key (but, I'm not running the Windows version at the moment to verify this).

A2a: Keyboard Shortcuts (Mac)!

Command k = Add an edit at the head and/or tail of audio clip to be adjusted.

Target the Track and the do one of the following:

• ] =  Increase Clip Volume
• Shift ] = Increase Clip Volume Many
• [ = Decrease Clip Volume
• Shift [ = Decrease Clip Volume Many

One approach here it so place all of your keyframes first, then advance through the edit making adjustments between keyframes with the keyboard shortcuts as needed.

A2b: Enable "Write Keyframes" in the Audio Clip Mixer or Audio Track Mixer (this tends to work best if you've locked picture) and adjust the Volume slider as needed.

[Trevor_Asq]

Warren Heaton wrote:

A1: If you're using the Mac version, use the Command key while the Selection Tool is selected to add a keyframe

Perfect... thank you. With the big bonus that I can do it whilst playing back!

I do use keyframe automation at times, but in a conversation it isn't easy to get right - combination of looking at waveforms and listening means quicker and more accurate to do with pen tool

[shooternz]

Why is there so much variation of levels in the conversations?

[Trevor_Asq]

It's a conversation and there is also spill across mica, so person A needs dipping when person B is talking.

[shooternz]

Maybe good to sort out your recording techniques in future to save a lot of post production effort. 

[Trevor_Asq]

Well they are not my recording techniques, but there's nothing wrong with them per se. Fact is that I *could* leave them both faded up for the most part, but the mix is much cleaner if the current speaker is set to a higher level than the non-speaker. Especially when they are speaking together.

This is pretty standard fare for interviewer / interviewee situations, although easier to remove other track with deletion in a Q & A scenario. It is also essential in 'round table' type discussions.

Thanks to everyone for their help

[Warren Heaton]

Trevor, have you used Adobe Audition?

You might find "Speech Volume Leveler" helpful.  I've only used it for sweetening voice over recordings where one subject is speaking, but I would imagine it could be helpful with multiple speakers (I'd probably subclip based on each speaker and then send those from the PR Timeline, but you could try the full source audio clip).

If sending dialog tracks from PR, Premiere will make a copy for you, adding "Audio Extracted" to the end of the filename.  If opening audio files directly in AU, I usually make a duplicate in the operating system first to avoid accidentally saving changes over the original audio.  I usually add "_MOD" to the end of the filename to differentiate between the original and the edited versions.

You'll find Speech Volume Leveler under Effects > Amplitude and Compression > Speech Volume Leveler....

-Warren

[Trevor_Asq]

Thanks Warren, I do use Audition for background removal at times, I'll take a look at the leveller. Turnaround is usually too tight, and picture isn't licked until it airs, so there's not time for too much round-tripping.

TBH the levels are good (there's often a soundie) and if it were live they'd ride levels a bit, use gating a bit, stick a compressor limiter on the dialogue mix and put up with a higher sound floor. I'm not doing an entirely different mix in the edit, but I can go back and fix.

PPro is much better in this regard (sub-mixes, with effects & loudness radar & PPMs on the master bus) than avid. Also it's keyframing is better AND I can tweak it during playback!

With my newly discovered command override & the keyboard shortcuts everything is pretty peachy.

[Warren Heaton]

I almost forgot!  You can create your own keyboard shortcut for “Add or Remove Audio Keyframe”, making the proces completely shortcut driven.

So, you can use your custom keyboard shortcut to add keyframes and then use [, ], Shift ] and Shift [ to increase/decrease the volume between the keyframes.

Reminder: The keyboard shortcuts for Increase/Decrease Clip Volume and Add or Remove Audio Keyframe only work if Track Targeting is enabled (for audio, the targets appear as “A1”, “A2”, A3” to the left of each Audio Track and shows as blue if enabled (yellow in older versions of PR.

[shooternz]

Q2. Am I missing any great PP tricks for this kind of editing/mixing?

Sure you are!

Why dont you use the Track Mixer with automation?