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Hello Adobe Community,
I’m writing this post out of sheer frustration and to hopefully get some constructive guidance. I recently worked on a project for a client who provided HDR footage (iPhone HEVC, Rec. 2020 Hybrid Log Gamma). Despite spending countless hours troubleshooting, the project ended up getting canceled because the rendered videos always looked different from the source.
Here's what happened:
Mismatch Between Source and Exported Colors:
Rendered Video Looked Different in Players:
Client Rejected the Final Output:
Color Space Adjustments in Premiere Pro:
Export Settings:
Testing in Video Players:
Followed Online Resources:
Why Is Premiere So Bad at Handling HDR?
Inconsistent Players:
HEVC Issues:
Better HDR Support Needed:
Improve HDR Previews for Non-HDR Monitors:
Allow for more accurate tonemapping previews on SDR screens to avoid surprises.
Better Documentation:
Provide step-by-step guidance for common HDR workflows like Rec. 2020 HLG or PQ from iPhone footage.
Fix HEVC Export:
Address the color mismatches that occur during HEVC exports.
I’ve been a loyal Adobe user for years, but this experience has been a nightmare. HDR workflows shouldn’t feel like this much trial-and-error. I’d love to hear from anyone who has successfully delivered HDR projects using Adobe tools or any Adobe team members who can provide guidance.
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Hi there,
Sorry for the poor experience. Are you and your client on a Windows or a macOS system? If so, try changing the viewer gamma as shown here (https://adobe.ly/3Zx5Pdr) while working on your project. Please also let us know if you want to export your project in HDR or rec709.
If you're on a Windows system, please share comparative screenshots so we can better understand the problem.
Thanks,
Ishan
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I work for/with/teach pro colorists. I'm in both Premiere and Resolve on a daily basis, and have been through the color management in both way, way down that rabbit hole. For years.
From reading through your post, it sounds like a very basic, and very natural, error ... you tried a bunch of different things, but never actually achieved a consistent color management setup to do what you wanted. No wonder you didn't nail things. (It's complicated and confusing to the max, btw.)
And yet, many thousands of people do this routinely with iPhone HLG media ... if you have the settings correct. Premiere 25.x can be used for a wide range of color workflows. It's pretty flexible, if not near perfet yet.
Although please understand this: HDR is still the Wild Wild West of video.
Very few screens out "there" (as a percentage of total screens) do any HDR at all. Those that do, do only one or two of the four-five competing HDR formats. And very, very few of those do the HDR they do supposedly support, well across the board.
Which makes HDR deliverables a bit of a nightmare, especially for web work. For broadcast and streaming, they do have pretty usable deliverable specs. The web is just nutso.
First, for HDR work, your monitor must support the format. And I would say, have at least 400 nits, which is rare in current monitors, most of which actually top out in the upper 300s. 600 nits is the absolute minimum for professional HLG workflows for color checking. 1000 nits is better. And actually required by about any broadcast/streaming service I know of.
And the only monitors that actually do 1,000 nits correctly are from Flanders FSI, Eizo, Konvision, and a few high-end Sony screens. They are ... expensive. Ahem.
Hokay ... to set color management in Premiere 25.x, go to the Lumetri Panel, Settings tab. The one NAMED Settings. All Premiere CM controls are there in one place, and that is where you can setup a unified color managment.
As to the differences in different players ... Premiere will probably be the most accurate view on your system, next to Resolve ... if you have your system and monitor settings correct. Do NOT set say video levels to full, period. Leave that setting at legal/video range or auto. IF you have that as an option.
SDR/Rec.709 gamma settings in Premiere and viewing outside of Premiere
Next, for Rec.709 media, Mac Retina monitors that don't have Reference modes use an incorrect viewing gamma, a display transform of roughly 1.96, instead of the correct, specified display transform of gamma 2.4. This means that Rec.709/SDR video on those screens is notably lighter and less saturated, especially in the shadows.
Macs with Reference modes set to HDTV, and all other viewing systems whether PCs, Android, TVs, and broadcast setups, use a display transform of roughly gamma 2.4. Which will show a darker, more saturated view than Macs without Reference modes.
And there ain't no fix possible. No "gamma compensation LUT" , as has been in the past used with Premiere, nor any NCLC tag changes, as is used in Resolve, can fix the problem across systems. You can make it better in one, and worse in the other, that's all you can do.
Premiere now has the Viewing Gamma setting. When working with Rec.709 outputs, set that to gamma 1.96/Quicktime, Premiere's program monitor and transmit out will match to what a Mac without reference modes using gamma 1.96 displays. But only in QuickTime Player, Chrome, and Safari.
VLC and Potplayer normally show closer to a 'proper' Rec.709 gamma 2.4 transform image. So they will be darker and more saturated. As would be seen on non-Mac screens, and on Macs with Reference modes.
In SDR workflows, there is no possible setting that works both "sides". Yea, that's a pain.
In HDR, it's normally far less of an issue. But of course, HDR is still the Wild Wild West as noted above. And both you and your client need to work on "similar" capability screens, in similar room brightness settings.
A Colorist's Required Caveats
Understand something off the bat: no one will ever see exactly what you see on your screen, period.
You have never, ever in your life, seen exactly what a pro colorist saw. No matter how viewed, movie theater, broadcast TV/streaming, home DVD, online. It isn't possible.
As has been demonstrated, even two "identical" monitors, sitting side by side, calibrated by high-end spectros, and fed the same signal from a Decklink card, will not have an identical appearing image. Now change the screen maker, the room, and ... it's nowhere the same.
This makes getting client buy-in a massive headache for pro colorists. Most of whom put in their pricing sheets the requirement that all color/tonal decisions are only accepted when made from viewing on certain screens in certain conditions. I know some who have a stack of a certain high-end iPads, that have extra color controls, and are set to as closely as possible match the Reference monitors in their suites.
They loan those to the client, who needs to use them in a pretty dark but not black room. And hope to get them back at the end of the project, of course ...
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@R Neil Haugen , what about the Sequence and Project settings, they seem to have some color options also?
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Neil, with all due respect...
I see you posting everywhere about this... BUT I HAVE edited hundreds of commercials, music videos and several feature films. I heard your "race car" analogy, but here's the thing: If I can open it in quicktime and watch it just fine, then I should be able to immediately be able to see the exact same color space (if I so choose) within premiere, simply by it recognizing how it was shot or (not ideally) through a simple raster process.
There are millions of creators using iPhone, easily the biggest customer they have that they aren't catering to. I AM a professional like you and I have been messing with all these setting for hours now. I can get close, but CANNOT get that filmic look out of premiere that I am comparing side by side on the same screen, from quicktime to my project.
THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM.
To put it plainly, you and I aren't the only core customers now. It's influencers who don't have the time and as a result are uploading sub-par footage to what they thought they shot.
And, if I can't get it right they sure as heck can't either. I can't even raster it out of encoder, it's the same deal.
We just did a whole music video and now I am going to have to go back and relearn final-cut bc I bet money theirs will be just drag and drop, like common sense would dictate.
BONUS POINT: There are colorspace presets for every camera out there, but not the iPhone? and no, the .2020 isn't even close to a solution.
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I'm sorry this doesn't work like you expect, but then ... it's pretty specific knowledge. Which doesn't matter how much overall experience you have, as if someone doesn't know the newer color management stuff, it's darn confusing.
I will say your Quicktime Player analogy doesn't work at all. Why?
In QuickTime, you open one file to view it at at time. So it auto-sets to that files header data. Open another file to play, Qt will change to that color space for the display.
In any NLE, you are expected to be loading a ton of different clips, which can be all over the place for color space ... and any NLE must have a conistent sequence setup. So mixing/matching requires planning based on which color management you want to get. It can't auto-guess unless you set this up to do so. Because how is Premiere supposed to know what you want to do with that file compared to every other file?
You haven't said what you want ... do you want to produce SDR/Rec.709 exports, or HDR in the HLG format the iPhone shoots? That's the first question.
SDR is still the far more common, and far more predictable option for deliverables. But some do want to try out HDR, and that can be done also.
I've worked with a ton of folk's iPhone, and never had any troubles sorting things out, and I'm happy to help you. The iPhone shoots HDR in the HLG format ... so rather than straight Rec.2020, you should use HLG for the iPhone. But ... more information is really needed.
So, again, what do you want to produce ... SDR/Rec.709, or HDR in HLG?
Next, no matter which of the above you want to end up with, what's your hardware ... computer/OS/monitor?
For starting out, I'd recommend simply setting display color management and auto detect log and auto tonemapping on, again, no matter what you want to end up with. Many people can then set their sequence CM space to either Rec.709 or HLG and if their monitor can handle HLG HDR, then it simply works.
If that doesn't, do screengrabs of the entire Settings tab, all sections twirled down, so we can see all of the color managment settings top to bottom. Along with a screengrab of the image and what you want to see instead.
We can probably get you going real quick.