HDV --> SD DVD Workflow (DebugMode FrameServer, AviSynth)

[Dan Isaacs]

While the old thread contains a wealth of great information, I've decided to break away from it. It's too old, too long, too confusing... In summary:

Many users are aware that Premiere/AME/Encore does a "less than stellar" job of converting 1080i HDV to interlaced SD DVD. I (and others) have tried every conceivable combination of options and found none that provided "professional quality" conversions. This is largely due to the way that Premiere handles scaling of interlaced material ... Example #1 ... Example #2 ... and Premiere's failure to convert from the HDV color matrix (Rec.709) to the SD specification (Rec.601).

In an effort to solve these problems, I developed a workflow (using several third-party freeware tools) that achieves results far superior to that of Premiere and/or Encore by themselves.

I have written a guide for this workflow, including step-by-step instructions and links to download all the required tools.

This page also contains a link to a more advanced option for doing these conversions (using mostly the same tools). Please do not attempt the advanced version unless you have already implemented my "basic" workflow!

The page and linked files will be updated frequently. It is a work in progress, but should already provide excellent quality. I look forward to comments and suggestions from this community (as always).

Enjoy! -- Dan

[Jeff Bellune]

Hi Dan - nice to have you back!

With a supported or hacked CUDA card, CS5 uses CUDA for scaling and deinterlacing.  I got pretty much the same results I had shown you earlier when we discussed Don's NVTools, except tons faster in CS5.  Caveat here is that I didn't spend a ton of time doing super-critical comparisons like we did before.  CS5 looked "better" than CS4, and at least as "good" as hd2sd for all of my test footage when I played it back the different versions on my 2 HDTVs and a couple of CRTs from a DVD.

Ann Bens and Curt Wrigley have a better handle than I do on how the scaling in CS5 works with a wider range of 1080i footage using CUDA, not using CUDA and compared to CS-earlier.

My test clips are long gone...

-Jeff

[Kuro_M]

Welcome back, Dan! You may have been offline for a while but there is no doubt your fans are still here and love your hd2sd.

@Jeff

I just had a look here in forums but could not recognize a thread which would fit to this:

Jeff Bellune wrote:

Ann Bens and Curt Wrigley have a better handle than I do on how the scaling in CS5 works with a wider range of 1080i footage using CUDA, not using CUDA and compared to CS-earlier.

Can you please give me a short hint, where I should search for a comperison?

Thanks a lot in advance!

[adoriantarla]

Hello, Jeff!

I'm new to avisynth and vdub and i followed your tutorial about hd2dv. But, when i try to access the site for hd2sd.zip, it seems that the adress doesn't work. Can you help me to find this script? And, can you tell me if the script is ok for hdv 50i? Thank you!

Of, sorry, I found the note of your tutorial and found the good adress! Thanks!

[Jeff Bellune]

The script should work perfectly for 50i as well.

-Jeff

[Azza_act]

Hi Jeff, wondering if you remember me? I had issues with

exporting MPEG-2 and i had "tearing" with playback on DVD. So, i'm going through your BDVS tuts, i'm at the hd2sd tut, doing the first export, should it take 6 hours to export? settings are 1280x720p, (1.) 59.95, Progessive.

cheers aaron

[Jeff Bellune]

Script?  Are you using MT?

System specs? Especially the CPU.

-Jeff

[Dan Isaacs]

Yes, it works with 50i also. Try this link: hs2sd & sd2hd

[adoriantarla]

I installed AviSynth, DGMpgDec, VirtualDub, Lagarith and hd2sd script on windows 7 with premiere cs5.

The quality of exports from hdv to sd directly from cs5 is poor, even if I select MRQ.

The quality of clip is far better with hd2sd, but... When I export with Mpeg I-frame preset at 100mbs, I can't view the exported clip with media player, for example. I follow the tutorial for conversion from hd to sd, but the exported clip with VirtualDub is 4:3, even if I select square pixel or 16:9 for the exported clip. In the DGMpegDec it is 16:9 aspect, but in VirtualDub and the final avi is 4:3.

I have to learn a little bit more about this method...

I use to keep my clips on DVD (dvd format with .vob) and on hdd (mpeg). If I want to export on DVD I have to put together video and sound. But, for a mpeg with sound file what method is the best:

- to export hd as mpeg I-frames with sound (mpeg multiplexing)

- to put the resulted avi clip from virtualdub in a new premiere SD project and export it as mpeg2-dvd with dvd multiplexing?

OFFTOPIC: When I export mpeg from CS5 (SD or HDV, it doesn't matter), there are some portions of clip where appears a kind of freeze (the image stops and jumps 1-2 frames with a interruption in sound too). If I export with the same settings, those freezes isn't always in the same place, but frecvently in the same place. I played the clip in another PC and it is the same problem. BUT, if I do a dvd-authoring with Ulead for example, on the dvd the clip is ok, those kind of freezes don't appear. Even if I play the DVD on PC or on TV. I tryed to reinstall Windows and CS5, but the same problem. I did the test with clean PC (only windows and CS5) and the problems occurs. Then I install Ulead, reexport the clip and the same problems. I suspect a problem with Media Encoder. Do you think I can use CS5 with Media Encoder from CS4? (I install CS5 then install Premiere CS4...)

[lin2m3]

Those freezes could be from lack of resources from your pc. Could be

from your videocard, or the hdd with the file is doing smth else in

the same time. Check the loads of the processors in the time freezing

scene. Anyway 100 Mb stream it is a lot of info. Does it freeze in CS4

too?

2010/6/9, adoriantarla <forums@adobe.com>:

I installed AviSynth, DGMpgDec, VirtualDub, Lagarith and hd2sd script on

windows 7 with premiere cs5.

The quality of exports from hdv to sd directly from cs5 is poor, even if I

select MRQ. When I export with Mpeg I-frame preset at 100mbs, I can't view

the exported clip with media player, for example. I follow the tutorial for

conversion from hd to sd, but the exported clip with VirtualDub is 4:3, even

if I select square pixel or 16:9 for the exported clip. In the DGMpegDec it

is 16:9 aspect, but in VirtualDub and the final avi is 4:3.

I have to learn a little bit more about this method...

>

I use to keep my clips on DVD (dvd format with .vob) and on hdd (mpeg). If I

want to export on DVD I have to put together video and sound. But, for a

mpeg with sound file what method is the best:

- to export hd as mpeg I-frames with sound (mpeg multiplexing)

- to put the resulted avi clip from virtualdub in a new premiere SD project

and export it as mpeg2-dvd with dvd multiplexing?

>

OFFTOPIC: When I export mpeg from CS5 (SD or HDV, it doesn't matter), there

are some portions of clip where appears a kind of freeze (the image stops

and jumps 1-2 frames with a interruption in sound too). If I export with the

same settings, those freezes isn't always in the same place, but frecvently

in the same place. I played the clip in another PC and it is the same

problem. BUT, if I do a dvd-authoring with Ulead for example, on the dvd the

clip is ok, those kind of freezes don't appear. Even if I play the DVD on PC

or on TV. I tryed to reinstall Windows and CS5, but the same problem. I did

the test with clean PC (only windows and CS5) and the problems occurs. Then

I install Ulead, reexport the clip and the same problems. I suspect a

problem with Media Encoder. Do you think I can use CS5 with Media Encoder

from CS4? (I install CS5 then install Premiere CS4...)

>

[adoriantarla]

I think those freezes is from some bug in Media Encoder CS5, because, with the same setting, in CS4 it doesn't happen. And the PC is i7 920 at 4.2 Ghz, 6Gb RAM, GTX470 and 4 HDD. It doesn't matter if I use software MPE or hardware MPE (with "cuda_supported_card" file modified). Or some wrong settings in my PC...

I'm lookong for an apropriate topic for this problem to not doing offtopic here... please help...

About the Avisynth and Dan's script, I'm still learning...

[Guest]

I've been working my way through this thread trying to find the 'script' on how to change HD to SD.  I've been working around the clock (almost) for 5 days now on some dance recitals I need to get out.  The DVDs I have burned so far are not even up to old VHS standard.  You cannot make out the dancer's faces.  I'd be happy with a fair conversion.  I imported all my AVCHD clips into an SD sequence and resized them.  Then I used the Dynamic Link for encore.  I've tried exporting them as MPEG-2s , AVI, etc. from Premiere and transcoding in Encore.  Nothing has improved it.  I even created a dual layer DVD it was better but still barely VHS quality.  I am using CS5.  Is there a simple way to go to SD and have fair quality?  I am under the gun here..

Thanks

[Jeff Bellune]

Video tutorials here, for both all-CS and hd2sd:

BDVS Tutorials

-Jeff

[Guest]

Jeff I am going through the tutorials and downloading the software.  I have Premiere Pro CS4 and CS5.  Do I have to install CS3 to us

e the FrameServer?  Can I edit with CS5?

thanks,

Janice

[Jeff Bellune]

There is a CS4 version of the FrameServer, but I was never happy with its performance.  It only used one CPU thread, so if you rendered with Maximum Render Quality, you could end up waiting a very long time for the render to complete.  At that point, rendering an intermediate file would be more efficient.  The CS3 version of the FrameServer (v2.6) was the last one I liked.  Personally, I wouldn't install CS3 just to be able to use the FrameServer.

Editing with CS5 should work just like CS4 does in the tutorials.  If you have a supported Nvidia graphics card, or if you've hacked Pr to use your unsupported Nvidia graphics card, then exporting/rendering with the hardware-accelerated MPE is fast and produces high-quality results.  It's as good as, and sometimes better than, software rendering with MRQ.

-Jeff

[Guest]

I am running Window 7 64 bit. Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz with 6 GB of Ram and a  NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT.

[Guest]

hey dan. u ever converted sd to hd for working with hdv projects?

[Guest]

Jeff for the 720p60 should I use lower or upper fields first in the export settings?

[Guest]

Another question - would using the DebugMod, FrameServer, AviSynth etc. give me a better final result for SD than straight out of premiere cs5?

[Guest]

I guess it won't work with CS5.

[Guest]

Does this make any sense.  I rendered one of my 1080 60i projects on my laptop with CS4 and it looks

GREAT!  It is a tad too large, I now see the size shows in the bottom of the render queue so another 24 hours for that one.  On my desktop with the same settings and similar footage and length it looks worse than SD.  There must be something here I am missing.  I would do it all with CS4 but it doesn't take in the AVCHD  720 formats.  Speaking of that can I create my own sequence preset for 720 60p?  Anyone know how to do that?

thanks

[Jeff Bellune]

OWoman wrote:

On my desktop with the same settings and similar footage and length it looks worse than SD.  There must be something here I am missing.  I would do it all with CS4 but it doesn't take in the AVCHD  720 formats.  Speaking of that can I create my own sequence preset for 720 60p?  Anyone know how to do that?

It's likely that the settings aren't really the same; it's worth some detailed and patient investigating.  I also worry about just how "similar" the similar footage is.

Use the desktop editing mode under the General tab in the new sequence dialog to set up your 720p60 sequence.

-Jeff

[Jeff Bellune]

would using the DebugMod, FrameServer, AviSynth etc. give me a better final result for SD than straight out of premiere cs5?

The quality from scaling using only CS5 should be very close to the quality of hd2sd.  Again, interlaced source material will be the toughest test.

-Jeff

[Jeff Bellune]

OWoman wrote:

Jeff for the 720p60 should I use lower or upper fields first in the export settings?

If you'll be using Encore, then use lower field first.

-Jeff

[Guest]

If I render using Adobe Media Encoder and it is going into Encore it should be lower for 720 60p?  Just want to make sure before I do another render.  My audio quality is at 192... is that too low?

[Jeff Bellune]

For stereo AC3, 192 kbps is just fine.

Encode only a short segment of the whole program, author it to DVD-RW or DVD+RW in Encore, and play it back in a hardware and a software DVD player.  Use an interlaced CRT for display if you have access to one.

The short segment keeps you from having to render the whole program, and the RW disc prevents the creation of coasters.  Using DVD players hooked up to a real TV will show you if there are any issues with the workflow.  There shouldn't be, but a good test is always a good idea.

-Jeff