How to Capture More Compressed Formats?

Report · Jan 14, 2017

I've got a blackmagic video capture card that allows me to capture HDMI output video from my camera directly into PR. The only option I see when I capture (on my PC) is "Motion JPG". Two questions:

1) Is there some way I can capture other formats? (like quicktime)

2) When I import this "Motion JPG" avi file into my PR on windows it works, I copy that file to MacBook it does not show video. How can I show it on a Mac?

Report · Jan 14, 2017

I think this question is probably better directed at Blackmagic Design.

Report · Jan 14, 2017

BM punted and sent it back to me (and Adobe). They said it is up to Premiere for how it wants to encode it once it enters the Premiere Capture function. Sorry if I'm not asking this right. I'm very new here and get lost easily (as you know from other ventures getting lost).

It it BM that decides what goes in the "options" form of the Preferences/Capture dialog?

Report · Jan 14, 2017

Perhaps shooternz or SAFEHARBOR11 might have an idea.

Neil

Report · Jan 14, 2017

They said it is up to Premiere for how it wants to encode it once it enters the Premiere Capture function.

I'm very skeptical of that. It's normally up to the hardware maker to add codec support for the codecs their devices encode to.

Report · Jan 14, 2017

I may have mis-understood what they told me. When I asked questions about integrating with Premiere they suggested I google "Premiere Getting Started".

Report · Jan 14, 2017

I'd get back to them and demand a rather more informational answer than that.

Although I will say, they can be a bit ... snooty ... in discussing Adobe stuff especially, and not always helpful for PC users in general. A couple years ago I was at their booth at NAB/Vegas. I was looking at the hardware to use a second screen as a full play-back monitor for Resolve, and asked if it would work running a second monitor through it for SpeedGrade also. (This is before the de-linking of PrPro/Sg.)

The counter person didn't know quite what program I was referring to ... so I requested his supervisor, actually wanting an answer. The super said he had no clue, as ... realistically, he'd never heard of the program. Clearly, he wasn't even expecting me to believe him, but just stood looking at me.

Adobe's booth was just kitty-corner across a big aisle intersection and ... it just so happened, that the Adobe "theatre" which faced diagonally right towards the BM booth was featuring a speaker on the wonders of the latest SpeedGrade to be rolled at the following June.

So ... I pointed over his shoulder and suggested he check out that Adobe SpeedGrade program.

He turned, looked for a bit, then looked back at me rather ... angrily, from facial expression, and just walked away. Not a word.

As they of course try and push Resolve, which needs a ton of spendy internal & external boxes to run, I don't think he felt it in his company's direct financial interest to mention a "competing" Adobe product. And as the counter person went to handle someone else, I just walked off myself.

I did go back this year to try and establish which bit of theirs I would need to run a playback monitor-out for Resolve from my PC. I spent over 45 minutes, was taken all over the booth by one employee after another, to another section which should know which bits worked with a PC to serve as a video-out for Resolve. Went though darn near every counter there, I was actually finding that experience rather amusing.

Basically, not one person of the probably 40 that I was taken to talk with had any idea how to run a video-out setup from a PC for Resolve to use.

So I do hope you get better support than I've been able to receive. They'd have had my 100 bucks or thereabouts if they just knew their equipment & PC's.

Neil

Report · Jan 14, 2017

Black Magic capture cards on a PC can capture to:

Black Magic Uncompressed AVI
Black Magic Compressed M-JPEG AVI
DPX

The intent is that you want a really high-quality file capture on the PC, which can then be edited and then exported to a delivery format of choice. These cards are not meant to capture direct for distribution.

I notice you did not say you wanted to edit the clips on the MacBook, but rather just to "show them". In that case, use Media Encoder and export to H.264 which will be universally viewable on PC, Mac, tablet, online.

EDIT: I should clarify, I'm talking about using the Black Magic Media Express capture utility. The BMD cards can actually act as input source for a variety of software apps, so it is possible that one could capture to other formats than those offered in Media Express. I was just using an Intensity Pro capture card the other night with a demo version of the vMix software and I believe there was an option to record to H.264 so something like that might be a workaround to capture to alternate formats.

Thanks

Jeff

Report · Jan 14, 2017

I'm hoping to save a step in my workflow. That is, not have to reencode my base videos. I typically do my editing long after I record and it would be nice if I did not have a manual step after I record.

So so it is blackmagic that limits what those three types are? Is there no pipeline in PR that would have PR compress them as they land in PR?

sorry if naive questions. Obviously steep on this learning curve and not really sure what work happens where.

Report · Jan 14, 2017

PrPro's "capture" process is a legacy/holdover from the days of video tape. They've not assumed any use of PrPro to do the "landing" recording of modern digital media as far as I know.

Neil

Report · Jan 15, 2017

Your best option here is to record in camera, rather than in PP.

Report · Jan 15, 2017

Actually, that I have a lot of experience with. Thousands of clips. It's a very tedious workflow. thats why I'm going down the hdmi capture path. i am confident there is an optimum solution in that space much better than "record to the card".

Report · Jan 15, 2017

Plays fine but I'm on a PC with BM decklink installed. Can't try on a Mac I'm afraid.

Report · Jan 15, 2017

Tedious? How so?

Record, transfer, import and edit. Works like a charm.

Report · Jan 15, 2017

Well, you asked so here goes. (BTW, no dis-respect intended, I appreciate all the help you provide here. It's been huge in keeping me producing).

I'm a one man band doing professional training videos at a home studio (aka, 3rd bedroom).

I have my camera (lumix g4) on a tripid that has a telepompter gizmo bolted to it (camera shoots through glass at 45 degrees, IPad sit's horizontally and shines on screen so I can read it while camera looks at me).

In a recording session (usually about 4 hours), I produce about 10 or so 2 minute clips (attaching a link to one below where I'm actually holding my iphone at belt level and recording myself being recorded).

Since I'm a horrible actor/script reader, I always do each clip over and over until I get it right. that means, record a clip, transfer it to PC, view it, repeat until acceptable. This is the hard part. The SD is hard to get out when on the tripod with telepompter. I always end up bumping the hec out of it, then have to readjust everything. So, I skip that and transfer by USB to my computer (slowwww). It also means I need to change camera mode from wifi (which I need for focusing on myself using the camera app) to file transfer mode. Then back again to wifi mode. Painful to do every time. I often do 4 or 5 clips and batch them but still a pain.

I'm sure I've left out several steps.

With the hdmi output, all those steps go away. I leave the camera on, I leave my iphone app running and I simply press start and stop on my bluetooth keyboard on my computer to start and stop recording. It's literally instant and I never have to touch my camera. (that's the plan anyhow).

Here is a link to me recording myself looking at the teleprompter.

Teleprompter video - YouTube

This thread has been a big help. I think my best plan is to start my 4 hour recording session with the encoding set to one of the non-compressed settings. It will likely create 100's of gigs of data but that's OK. I'll put together what I need at the end of the four hours, encode it to h.264 and store that. Then throwaway the uncompressed stuff.

Report · Jan 16, 2017

Hi Peter,

Thanks for sharing your workflow - what you are doing makes perfect sense, and I understand the desire for smaller files. Consider this though - the native recording in the camera is probably something like 25mbps with 4:2:0 color, inter-frame recording. Very highly compressed. From that compressed file, you then need to make highly-compressed deliverables.

The Black Magic M-JPEG codec will be intra-frame with 4:2:2 color at a much higher bitrate, maybe 100mbps, not sure. A much better choice as a "master" clip format to begin the process with. You can delete the out-takes and the good stuff should not take that much room. Hard drive space is very inexpensive these days.

No need for "uncompressed", definitely go with the M-JPEG option.

Thanks

Jeff

Report · Jan 16, 2017

I'd love to use mjpeg but it does not transfer for me to the mac OS X or other windows computers. Even after installing blackmagic s/w.

That is pr does not recognize the video.

Report · Jan 16, 2017

Sorry - forgot about the Mac, wasn't mentioned in last post.

vMix has a 60-day free trial. It will accept input from Black Magic, and offers several recording options - http://www.vmix.com/help18/

Two formats that may work on the Mac are the .mp4 and MPEG-2 .ts file formats. You may be able to record direct to .mov as well, not certain about that.

I'd give vMix a try even if you don't need the switching or streaming features, if only for the recording options it has. The HD version is pretty inexpensive at $60 US. Download Live Video Production Software | vMix

Thanks

Jeff

Report · Jan 16, 2017

Hi Peter,

Just re-read your post again - "I'd love to use mjpeg but it does not transfer for me to the mac OS X or other windows computers. Even after installing blackmagic s/w. "

I'm not a Mac user, but my understanding has always been that Mac cannot play .avi files, that seems right. However the comment about the Black Magic .avi files not playing on other Windows systems after installing the codec doesn't make sense. I work with many different editing PCs both at home and at work, and all I've ever needed to do to play Black Magic files is to install the BM Desktop Video software drivers (even without their hardware being installed). Then their files just work.

Make sure that Premiere is closed whenever installing ANY new codec. Then when you next launch Premiere, the new codec should then be available in Premiere export options. Restart Premiere if that was not the case. And Premiere should not even be a necessity, any media player should work as long as the codec is installed on system.

EDIT: BMD does offer a hardware unit to record directly to H.264, aptly named H.264 Pro Recorder, but the cost is $495 (US). Records into PC via USB connection. But again, H.264 is not recommended really as something you want to edit and recompress for delivery, rather this device is meant as a direct to delivery format recorder.

Thanks

Jeff

Report · Jan 16, 2017

Since I'm a horrible actor/script reader, I always do each clip over and over until I get it right. that means, record a clip, transfer it to PC, view it, repeat until acceptable.

I think that might be the flaw in your work flow. If you really can't tell whether or not it's good from the performance itself, if you need to see it played back, then get yourself an external monitor and watch it straight from the camera.

Only move the card to the computer when you're done shooting.

Report · Jan 14, 2017

Can you upload a short clip to test

I have a couple of old mjpeg that show on my imac.

Report · Jan 14, 2017

It's not exactly small but it's only 10 seconds or so (150MB)

Dropbox - TestFrmGH4-motionjpg-59.avi https://www.dropbox.com/s/wk4nmfk71rjcbse/TestFrmGH4-motionjpg-59.avi?dl=0

My preference would be to get it more compressed when it goes into PR. Is that something blackmagic has to do with their card or is it something Adobe is doing on the way in?

Report · Jan 15, 2017

peterkellner1 wrote:
It's not exactly small but it's only 10 seconds or so (150MB)
Dropbox - TestFrmGH4-motionjpg-59.avi https://www.dropbox.com/s/wk4nmfk71rjcbse/TestFrmGH4-motionjpg-59.avi?dl=0
My preference would be to get it more compressed when it goes into PR. Is that something blackmagic has to do with their card or is it something Adobe is doing on the way in?

Its a BM codec issue. Cannot play it on my pc or mac.

(but then i dont have BM)