Panasonic TM700 1080/60p 28mbps files

[ruzun]

The newest panasonic camcorder, the TM700 records video at 1080/60p in an MPEG-4 format.  Can CS5 import these files, and if so, what would the logical output format be?  720/60p perhaps, or can you output 1920x1080/60hz progressive?  I believe the files have an MTS extension but since AVCHD doesn't allow 60p it's a sort of non-standard format.

According to camcorderinfo.com few editors will accept the Panasonic files, but the quality of the footage is significantly better than the cameras 1920x1080/60i AVCHD mode.

I'm wondering if you could include clips from this camcorder in a CS5 project, and if so what output resolution/framerate would make the most sense (for computer playback I imagine, I don't think Blu-Ray or AVCHD discs support 1080/60p data).

Seems like a great new camera feature, but it's not clear to me how you would distribute the final edited file in such a way as to take advantage of the 60hz progressive nature of the original footage.

[PacificaXXX]

I'm looking at the TM900 for a safari later this year and I think you just sold me.  The quality of that video is AMAZING!

[docdam]

Sorry... no time to create a new video...

If you can upload one or two minutes of video i can test it to you on a WDTV.

[docdam]

When files become over 4GB the TM700 split the video into more files m2ts....

When i put them in the timeline it's like i loose some frame... instead with the panasonic program the video is fluent...

Do you know how to merge the m2ts files in premiere without converting them????

[Guest]

Sorry, I don't know the answer to this.  I am having some problems with Premiere - I am just learning the program.

After installing Premiere Pro CS5 on Windows 7, I cannot see my preview icons for photos and videos anymore in Windows Explorer.

The files just appear as blank icons, and do not show me the photo or video clip preview.

This is strange...

Does this happen to anyone else?

[Colin-B]

docdam wrote:

Do you know how to merge the m2ts files in premiere without converting them????

You might get like to try simply concatenating them. There are probaby some GUI tools out there to concatenate binary files, but the COPY command in the Command Window would probably be OK for this. Make sure you only concatenate files which really were "split", and not arbitrary m2ts files.

copy /b infile1+infile2 outfile

[Guest]

I am not a videophile or techie.

I was looking to purchase this Panasonic TM700 video camera for family (general consumer use) after its multiple top ratings for overall video quality.  Our usage is primarily family events (indoor birthdays & holidays), vacation (indoor & outdoors) and possibly future kids' sporting events.  I had been looking at the Canon hfs200, which video quality is quite poor overall compared and Sony Cx350.  I know the cx 500 series is a better video cam, but can't afford the current price difference (panny is $750 and sony is $1000.)  I was ready to buy this camera this weekend, but have only recently come across forums, such as this one, that imply there is no current compatibility to DVD or blu ray  for the 1080 60p files from this camera.

I know  you can playback the data directly from the camera to the TV.  However, we usually like to back up our videos to a DVD or possibly blu ray for future storage & TV playback, not through camera.  I have never done video editing & don't own any video software.  Am I correct in my understanding from this discussion, that if I download the TM700's video files to my computer, that I won't be able to directly copy them to a usable blu ray or DVD video file for playback on a standard dvd player or ps3 without downconverting the files to 720 60p?  If so, what is the point of having th 60p camera?  The panny is really well rated, but if I can't preserve the video quality & file format, is it useless as far as a lay person like myself is concerned.  The camera can be set to record at 1080 24p, but at that "resolution" does not perform as well as its competitors, and from what I gather from this forum, does not down convert (may be wrong terminology here) to 1080 24p correctly..  Should someone like me, who isn't looking to edit, but only "backup" onto a playable format stay away from this camcorder?  Am I better off sticking with a different camera?  I liked that the panny had EVF and manual controls, and overall better low light performance than some of the other cameras I was looking at in this price range.  Any input or suggestions from other video camera owners would be much appreciated!

[Jim_Simon]

If so, what is the point of having the 60p camera?

Precisely.

[Quicskate]

Even if this camera didn't have hte 60p feature, it's still a great camera.

It will also capture in four different bitrate 1080i formats which are in the BR spec. There are some BR players that will play the 60p BR discs.

I hate the look of interlaced video so if we have to render to 720 60p for BR, your never working with interlaced video. I believe 1080 60p will eventually be a BR supported format. So this camera is ready for the future and won't be antiquated anytime soon. I'm thinking of buying another one. I have a Sony HVR-A1,

$1700.00 and this camera blowes it away. Youtube it and look at some of the low light videos. It also comes with some basic editing software.

So for the price, down to $730.00 now, it has the best looking video around and is built for the future. Most people will have an i7 eventually and will be able to play the 1080 60p mp4, wmv files.Why spend more for a less quality camera anyways??  Danny Hays

[ddhir]

I agree completely.....this is hands down the best prosumer HD camera out there

(Hoping the Blu-Ray standards body will upgrade BR to 60p)

Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 11:45:56 -0700

From: forums@adobe.com

To: ddhir@hotmail.com

Subject: Panasonic TM700 1080/60p 28mbps files

Even if this camera didn't have hte 60p feature, it's still a great camera.

It will also capture in four different bitrate 1080i formats which are in the BR spec. There are some BR players that will play the 60p BR discs.

I hate the look of interlaced video so if we have to render to 720 60p for BR, your never working with interlaced video. I believe 1080 60p will eventually be a BR supported format. So this camera is ready for the future and won't be antiquated anytime soon. I'm thinking of buying another one. I have a Sony HVR-A1,

$1700.00 and this camera blowes it away. Youtube it and look at some of the low light videos. It also comes with some basic editing software.

So for the price, down to $730.00 now, it has the best looking video around and is built for the future. Most people will have an i7 eventually and will be able to play the 1080 60p mp4, wmv files.Why spend more for a less quality camera anyways?? Danny Hays

[Jim_Simon]

I believe 1080 60p will eventually be a BR supported format.

Don't hold your breath.

[Quicskate]

Here's a Blu-Ray player that plays 1080 60p.

http://www.bombayelectronics.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SO_BDPS560&click=2

Blu-Ray isn't the only way to watch these 1080 60p videos. I have rendered them as mp4 and wmv with the bitrate raised to the same as the original files, 28 mbps. The quality is unbelievable.

My i7 which I built for about $800 plays them flawlessly. Media player classic will play the original .mts files perfectly as well.

Block Buster is very quickly losing costumers to Netflix with a Roku box. That being said, what's to stop us from from downloading them and watching them on our HDTVs via our computers? Never underestimate the speed in which technology advances.

     I work at Universal Orlando Resort. Our Disaster ride's video in scene 2 is 1080 60p. So is Shrek 4D. The Simpsons rides plays video back at 4K,  that's

4  thousand and something by 2 thousand and something, at 60p. Thats 8 times the quality of 1080 30p.

Jim Simon, Do you even have one of these TM700s? We should not speculate what we can and cannot do with the 1080 60p files, but post accurate findings from people that do have one.

     For those who need their videos on Blu-Ray or don't have a fast enough computer yet, this camera is able to capture in several different 1080i bitrates and FPS. Hope this helps, Danny

[Jim_Simon]

Here's a Blu-Ray player that plays 1080 60p.

http://www.bombayelectronics.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SO_BDP S560&click=

Careful there. That retailer has modified the device.

Plus, you have the issue of actually getting the 1080p/60 files onto a Blu-ray.  Encore won't do it.

And there is the issue of the display itself.  As 1080p/60 is not a defined HDTV standard, it's not guaranteed that any HDTV will play it back.  (I know mine won't.)

[Quicskate]

These are some examples of what people are doing with these files.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKEP70GGjjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B31qcEhHv0w

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=19708735&postcount=1211

http://quicktimeripper.com/?p=414

[ruzun]

I have a TM700 and while 1080/60p is great no blu ray player will play those files.  The players will output 1080/60p but even via their media slot they will definately NOT play a 1080/60p file.  There is NO Blu-Ray spec for placing a 1080/60p file on a disc, it does not exist in the spec at all.  Players will  convert  a 1080/60i file to 1080/60p though.  I have a Sony 570 BD player and it will NOT play 1080/60p files, neither will a PS3 which I also have (not the edited output anyway).  I have heard some newer PS3s might handle it but I update my firmware all the time and it doesnt play 1080/60p files smoothly.

Basically the Tm700 is a great camcorder, but if you shoot in 1080/60p I've found the best option is to output 720/60p files.  Everything can play those and you preserve the smoothness of motion when capturing things like birds, sports etc.

The TM700 will shoot 1080/60i natively and it is the best consumer camcorder in my opinion, even if you ignore its capability to shoot 1080/60p.

-Roger

[Guest]

Roger, if I get this camera & film in 1080 60p and downconvert to 720 60p, as you suggest.....does the included software from Panasonic do this and can I do it with a 3 or 4 year old desktop or 6 mos old i5 laptop with 4GB ram?  I'm maxing my budget out to buy the camera & I won't have any leftover to upgrade a computer or buy additional processing software.  My biggest concern with this camera is not the IQ, but the fact that so many people are having to go to outside resources to capture the files into a usable format and many are saying their computers aren't capable of handling the files at all once they're downloaded.  I don't want to spend hours fiddling with computers and software just to make a simple copy of my movies onto a DVD.  Nobody has really answered my question about what the included software CAN be used for, as it seems everyone is using something else.  I'm also going to probably show my ignorance here, but can the 720 60p be recorded onto a standard DVD disk or does it require a HD disk or BR?  I only have a standard DVD burner at this time.  If I pretty much have to upgrade everything else just to get playback (not direct from camera), then this camera is waay out of my league for the time being.

Thank you for your previous comment, as I found it helpful.  I apologize for redirecting this forum.  It is amazing to me that there arent' more places where the "average" user is discussing the dowloading & reformatting of files from the TM700.  From the issues I'm hearing, it seems that this is NOT a camera designed for the average joe consumer.  I wish the files were easier, as I'd sure love to have the outstanding IQ.

[Harm_Millaard]

The ingest is easy. Just copy the AVCHD directory to your hard disk. No Panasonic software needed.

Why would you want to record in 1920 x 1080/60p and then downrez to 720 x 480/29.97p for DVD? Any better resolution requires a BRD and burner.

You can forget about editing this material with a 3 - 4 year old desktop and also with a 6 month old laptop, unless you have at least 3 physical 7200 RPM (e)SATA disks on that machine and a quad core processor with at least 4 GB memory. Even then it will be dead-slow.

[Jim_Simon]

If I pretty much have to upgrade everything else just to get playback (not direct from camera), then this camera is waay out of my league for the time being.

There is more to HD than just a new camera.  You also need the computer hardware to handle the media.  (It sounds like yours might be underpowered.)  You need the software than handle your media.  (CS5 can do most HD formats.)  You need an HD monitor for proper quality control and color correction.  You need a Blu-ray burner and blank Blu-ray disks.  You need a Blu-ray player and finally an HDTV.

Moving to HD can be a very pricey proposition.  If you don't have the entire chain in place, quality will suffer.

[Guest]

THANKS ALL!

It is clear to me that I don't have the computing ability at this time to handle the Panny's files   So, I guess I'm off to find a different camcorder to buy.  I have both HDTV and PS3 for HD and BR playback. No BR burner at this time, but we may invest in one if we get a good HD camera. I know I can view the HD raw files on the HDTV via HDMI output directly from any HD camera.  My problem is what to do when the SD card is full, as I dont plan to buy multiple SD cards.   I don't intend to edit or manipulate or even playback files on the computer.  I merely want to copy the files off the camera's SD card onto a hard drive for backup/future use, so I can clear & reuse the SD card.  We will also want to directly burn some of the videos to a playable format (such as DVD or BR)--the purpose of this would be so we can share the videos with relatives and also to have a way to playback the movies later on our HDTV after they are deleted from the SD card.  Too bad DVD & BR players don't have card readers on them!  Otherwise converting to an alternate media would be completely unneccessary!

Am I going to have trouble even doing this simple task with any HD camcorder?    Surely I'm not the only one who just wants HD videos for family memories since we have an HD tv and doesn't plan to do editing etc, but will still want to playback videos from other than original flash drive?  I doubt every consumer buying HD camcorders has an i7 and cs5 so there has to be some alternate method for transferring files (without editing) to a playable media.   I was just wondering if Panasonics software will do this easily?  Or, now that I realize I can't handle the tm700's files, do any of the low-mid range camcorders come with software that will save/convert HD video files  to DVD without a lot of hassle or powerhouse computer?

Either way, it looks like I will have to pass on the TM700 for now (BUMMER!) and go with a cheaper camcorder.  I just wanted better video than I'm currently getting from my panny tz3, without having to upgrade all my electronics.

[Harm_Millaard]

It is not about the camera, whether it is cheaper or not, it is about the codec used in the camera. AVCHD is out, DV is very feasible, HDV might be OK.

[Jim_Simon]

Too bad DVD & BR players don't have card readers on them

Some do.  My Sony 570 does.  (USB port for thumb drive.)  Works quite well for playback of certain formats.  1080i/30 would work.  720p/60 would work.  But not 1080p/60.

[Quicskate]

watch this video first before you buy another camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_fi2VEFVo0

I can edit the 1080 60p files on my 3.4 dual core laptop, I was using Vegas Pro10, not HDWriter though The video preview wasn't very many frames per second but usable. The youtube video clearly shows you can make regular DVDs with the HDWriter software that comes with it. It may not have all the effects and things Vegas or Priemere does, but to cut and peice together parts of your videos and make a standard def DVD is possible with the HDWriter software.  I'm at work right now and cant test it on my dual core but I will later tonight and test it for you.

I'd hate to see someone buy an almost obsolete camera for a little less than the TM700.

You can also burn your 1080 60p files to DVD and play them back through your TM700  at 1080 60p with the included software.

    As far as  a Blu Ray player with an SD slot to play them, Search the AVS forums for this. People are doing it successfully. The AVS forums have a ton of info posted on this camera. In the end, you'll also have a camcorder built for the future, but will do what you want now as well.

          Hope this helps, Danny Hays

[Guest]

Quicskate,

Thank you for your kind replies.  I appreciate the suggestion to the AVS forum, as there is LOTS of info on this camera there and I think I have found threads there that more accurately represent the info I was trying to find.  It looks like others have found the Panasonic software the best option for directly burning to both DVD (with SD files that are playable on any home DVD player--to give to family) AVCHD format DVD that are playable on blu ray players & PS3.  Apparently, there is also an optional Panny burner that plugs directly into the camera & will burn these 2 types of discs without a computer, even.  So, if my computer can't handle the software for some reason, that will also be an option.  For archiving the original 60p files, it sounds like either purchasing additional SD cards & saving all files on the SD or copying to external HDD are best options.  This is all I was wanting to do with the TM700 files & it looks like we should be able to handle it.

Still on the fence about this camera & another, but for unrelated issues.

Thank you to everyone that has tried to offer your help.

[Guest]

I appreciate everyone's answers!  I have a few new questions:

You have stated that the Panasonic has 1080 60i and 1080 24p.  Are these modes available for videorecording, or just for downconversion after recording in 1080 60p, via the included software?  Or, both? If/When the camera records in these modes, does the camera still perform better than other consumer cameras from Sony and Canon?  I guess I'm wondering: if the 1080 60p mode is put aside and the  Panasonic is put on a level playing field with Sony & Canon's 1080 60i and 1080p24, does it still perform better?  Or, is it equal to, or even worse than the others when recording in those modes?  Has anyone compared these lower quality film modes in the Panasonic to everyone else's equivalent?  As far as I'm concerned, if I can't use the stellar 60p now, and must use another mode to film that is equivalent to or worse than the mid-range cameras I was originally looking at, then the Panasonic is not worth the extra $150-160 it would cost me over a midrange consumer camera at this piont in time.  Also,  is it complicated to downconvert files to playable dvd/blu-ray format using the included software from Panasonic without having to buy a video editing software, too?

My next questions are about user interface (on the camera & in the included Panasonic software).  Everyone keeps calling the TM700 a "prosumer" camera and  it seems like most people using/reviewing  this camera and working with its files are either pros or avid videographers. Is this camera really targeted more to the 'pros' who will take advantage of its features and take the time to use outside software to work within the 60p format?   Or, is this camera friendly for the average consumer, too?  From an ease of use standpoint, is a general consumer more well served by a simpler "consumer" camera whose files are more readily viewed & used? 

Here's why I'm asking.  I am NOT a pro or even avid amateur.  I am a casual consumer user who just appreciates good quality imaging.  I don't own a DSLR and will probably never use the manual features of the TM700.  I was originally looking to buy a mid-range consumer camera (others I'm considering include the Sony cx350 and Canon hfs200), but was drawn in by the many rave reviews for the Panasonic TM700 on multiple camcorder sites.  I agree its a bargain at $750 when compared to others in its class.  But, since I wasn't in the market to buy a top of the line camera and I don't have $1000 to spend, I'm trying to decide if the extra $160 the Panasonic costs over the other mid range cameras I'm looking at is worth the extra cost--for the average user.  Any comments or experiences you have with these cameras will be much appreciated.

Thank you all for your time & input.

[Jim_Simon]

Everyone keeps calling the TM700 a "prosumer" camera

I personally would consider it a consumer camera, not well designed for professional application.

[docdam]

Is actually possible to edit and encode file in 1080 50p or 60p. Then is possible to play the file with player like WDTV. You can store the video in hard disk and play in any TV at the original quality.