Rode Wireless Pro: Low Audio Levels

[Haley34484897i6ec]

 Howdy,

I've been googling a lot on audio for the Wireless Pro/Wireless Go 2 systems. I have both, but since upgrading to the Wireless Pro set I can't seem to get the audio levels correct for my video content. It seems that no matter the settings of the mic/camera when I export the audio and drag it onto my timelines, it is extremely low. I have to amplify it by +20 or so for it to be usable... I have ran tests but no matter what it ends up the same once I drag it onto the timeline in PP or Audition. Luckily the quality of the mic is still pretty good and the audio is still usable after I do a little noise reduction to clean it up. But it's still a pain, because inceasing the gain that much obviously increases the noise floor and creates noticeable unwanted hiss. Not enjoying this workflow and wondering why in the world it's importing so low. 😑

Anybody else experiencing this?

 

[R Neil Haugen]

How are you recording that? If you do have the levels set correctly, they should come into Audition or Premiere fine.

[Haley34484897i6ec]

The mic is set to standard (-12) my camera is at standard (-9).

And I use the 32 bit float. The audio is low on the camera and on the separate mic recording. So I'm kinda puzzled.

[R Neil Haugen]

If you didn't use 32 bit float, what do you get?

I'll bet that's where the "anomoly" comes in.

[Richard M Knight]

Does the Wireless pro setting preset match your camera? The manual has instructions about this. If you can use the audio recorded in the transmitter that would be better quality as it is 32bit float.

[Ann Bens]

Try this with different (non adobe) software) see if this has the same result (or not)

If it stays low volume, there is some not right with the mic.

[Richard van den Boogaard]

It seems like you're recording at way too low levels. The Rode Wireless GO II Pros allow for 32 bit float recording. This basically means you almost cannot record beyond clipping levels. If you set this device then to -12dB, you are effectively capping it off at the knee. Set the mic to 0dB and see how it then comes out.

I have my Rode Wireless Go IIs (not the Pro versions) set to 0dB or -3dB and the audio comes out just fine.

[Steve360377894aq2]

This confused the heck out of me regarding my brand new Wireless Pro audio recordings stored on the transmitter - no matter what gain adjustments I made to the transmitter using Rode Central it remained about -35db.  The only exception is when I held the transmitter ridiculously close to my mouth and I managed to get it "up to" -25db.  After several calls and emails to Rode Support the answer turned out to be that those gain adjustments are ONLY designed to change if you have the transmitter connected via the 3.5mm mini plug - if you use USB-C connection it doesn't react OR no connection at all.  It's not a disaster since the recordings stored on the transmitter use 32 bit float technology and if you export them that way off the transmitter (and often even if you don't) in post you can raise them to basically anything you want without distortion

[Justin 907]

I just started testing the Wireless Pro as well and I'm having the same issue as Haley34484897i6ec.

For my test, thus far, I've attached a lav mic directly to the transmitter. I've tried Gain Assisst set to Auto, Dynamic and Off. I've set the manual gain to 0 and to -32. I've exported the audio from the transmitter and dragged it off, from folder to folder. All of these settings yield the same result, very low audio levels. Premiere is not the issue. The levels are clearly low when I play the file in various audio/video players on my PC.

Steve360377894aq2, I'm confused by your comment, " in post you can raise them to basically anything you want without distortion." Distortion isn't a concern when you raise low levels, a loud sound floor is the concern. The 32 bit float is to protect your recording from clipping, due to very loud sounds. 

[scrow9]

OK I will take that note but the bottom line here is you can raise your audio gain levels in your editing program and still have great sounding audio - it's interesting to me that Rode opted to lock in such a low db level, i've asked them to send me whatever documentation they have related to this issue, we'll see if I get anything from them to help me better understand the logic and practicalities

[Justin 907]

For context, I'm basically a one-man-band production house for a state government department. I've used Sennheiser wireless mics on Sony camcorders for most of my career (about 30 yrs - 10 of those in TV news). I just started testing the Wireless Pro. It has some clear advantages. To be clear, I'm not an audio expert. When you wear so may hats in the process, you learn enough in each catagory to do the entire job. I'm more of a photographer/editor/writer/director than an audio guy. My current, specific interest in understanding 32 bit float, has to do with the fact that the levels are low when I bring it into Premiere. All the not-clipping stuff is great, to be sure, but I've been concerned about bringing up those low levels in post, and how that will affect the noise floor. I did some further online research after you replied. I think bringing up the audio in post will be fine and I'm sharing this, with this context, hoping this part of the discussion will be helpful to people who work the way I do. Here is one quote and a link to that forum discussion, as well as a Wired article about 32 bit float in general.

Quote Source:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/32-bit-float-explained.46654/page-3

"Signals that are recorded too low can be amplified to a usable level without pulling up the noise floor as well (which is -758 dB in 32-bit float, with another 770 dB above the nominal 0 dB point). In the video, Judd boosts an extremely weak section of the signal by a whopping +98 dB and still ends up with a perfectly usably low noise floor. This is simply not achievable with 24-bit or 16-bit fixed point."

Wired Article:

https://www.wired.com/story/32-bit-float-audio-explained/

[athletic_idea01AC]

I feel you on this. A lot of this really confused me, too. Long story short: There are different places in the signal chain where gain adjustments (or other adjustments) are made. The transmitter takes its raw digital signal and applies it to the transmitter's own on-board 32-bit float recording. After that, it applies the transmitter's gain adjustment (Auto, Dynamic, or manual gain increase up to 30db). At this time it also applies any low-cut filter you may have set for it. You may have noticed there's no low-cut in the 32-bit float files. When the receiver receives this digital signal it passes it along to as-is to the phone, tablet, PC, or Mac. It also creates an analog signal which is then adjusted based on the "gain mode" you set (gain, headset, headphones, camera, etc.) and then goes out the side via the 1/8 inch (3.55 mm) port on the side. When in "gain mode," this analog signal can only be attenuated, not increased, until it's received and then adjusted again in whatever device you're recording this analog signal (e.g. camera, recorder, etc.). Took me forever to figure this out. Still love the device, but this is why, I think, Rode ultimately designed the device to be connected to cameras and other devices via the analog signal; they assumed the next device would boost/adjust gain. The transmitters' on-board recordings were meant as back-ups. I wonder if they'll change this in later software or firmware updates.  

[R Neil Haugen]

32 bit float audio has really been a fascinating but thoroughly confusing thing to work with. I don't have any kit that records it, and I've only been given such files a few times, but ... working with them directly in either Premiere or Resolve is at best a bit strange if not downright frustrating.

A friend works "on the Street" in LA, colorist for many major motion pics with perhaps an emphasis on taking 80's/90's/00's movies from "original" to preserved properly digitally. And ready for streaming or BluRay or whatever. So it's all pretty high-end stuff. Well, the budget you gotta have to hire him, um ... yea.

He says that still, most of the audio guys doing long-form and major docs will not touch 32 bit float audio. As they know how to control it manually.

True ... and honestly, those 'shoots' have a full audio crew on hand, right? What about us that ... if we are lucky! ... can get a part-timer or friend to help out by 'riding' the audio for an interview and look-around a factory?

I can easily see how 32 bit float would be a HUGE boon for those like me. So I'm watching this develop, and hoping that not only the gear gets more ubiquitous, but that Premiere and Resolve start working easily with it.

Or at least, Audition ...

[scrow9]

Thanks for keeping this discussion alive - I've not been following the developments since March when I had a stroke so I'm not sure if I am going to get back into video production BUT it's still an interest and I'm not mad at all for buying quality audio gear - with that said I do hope Rode either addresses this somehow OR spells it out in very plain English for even non-techies to understand.