SLog3 footage coming in with LUT applied, unable to change or remove.

[Hecubus114]

I recently update to Premiere 2022, and now I am unable to grade ir color correct any footage I import from my Sony FX6. The clips are SLog3. When I import them into Premiere, they have the appearance of a LUT already having been applied (I assume rec709, as that it about hwo I expect them to look). However, if I click on any clip, and interpret footage, Premiere claims no LUT has been applied. Oddly enough, if I open any of the source clips, they appear correct (flat, with no color grading applied). But if I bring them into the timeline, they become just like all the others, with the colors changed. Source tab for any clips in the effects window is completely empty, so there is no LUT there to remove.

Especially frustrating is that I CANNOT change/grade/color correct any of the clips beyond how Premiere imports them. Not adjustments in Lumetri have any impact. I don't feel like I am doing anything incorrectly here, but perhaps there is something I am overlooking about how this works in the new version? I did everything exactly the same in the previous version, and had zero issues like this.

Specs:

Premiere 22.0.0

macOS Big Sur 11.2.1

iMac 27 inch 2019

Processor: 3.6 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9

Memory:  64 GB 2400 MHz DDR4

Graphics: Radeon Pro Vega 48 8 GB

[Hecubus114]

If this is a feature and not a bug, please explain how input LUT is listed as "none" yet my clips' colors are still being altered, and I am unable to make any additional changes to color beyond those...

I'm all for color management improvements. I would like to be able to utilize those improvements.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Hecubus,

Sorry about that. Not sure as I don't have access to all your settings, but it might have something to do with Sequence Settings. Have you checked out our new FAQ on the topic? https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/faq-how-to-fix-saturated-over-exposed-hlg-cl...

See if that clears things up.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Hecubus114]

I have seen that FAQ, and it didn't help much in regards to what I am experiencing.

I have made some progress on this though... as suggested above by @Warren Heaton , if I change the clip's color space override to Rec. 709, this makes it appear how I expect it would when I import it (which, as a totally different topic, I do not understand at all - why doesn't using the S-Log3 color space from file make it look correct?)

HOWEVER... I am still unable to make ANY color adjustments to the clips. With any effects, Lumetri or other, that I have attempted.

[rjd253]

Did you ever get an answer as to why to watched your source files in log you need to interpret them as rec709? Also I have the same list of issues when making proxies of the "interpreted rec709 source files". If I send them to media enconder already overrriden in PrPro they still get the mysterous LUT look you get when you don't overrride them in the project panel. 

[R Neil Haugen]

It isn't some "mysterious LUT look", it's far simpler. Premiere 2022 is not properly processing all color space matters at the moment. Acknowledged by the engineers in several places (not that most users would ever see them ... sigh) and we're awaiting a fixed patch.

One of the specific things acknowledged as broken IS proxies for HLG clips ... or log-encoded Rec.709 clips that Premiere mistakenly "sees" as HLG.

HLG ... hybrid log gamma, right? The log part comes from the fact that all HDR is log-encoded, but the hybrid/gamma comes from adding a "Rec.709" sort of gamma curve to the shadow area. But all HDR media is log-encoded, whether HLG/PQ or whatever.

Some SDR/Rec.709 media is also log-encoded, but meant to be displayed within the Rec.709 color space. At this time, Premiere is still miss-applying an HLG color space/range to some media expected to be used as Rec.709. Hence, the Override to Rec.709.

But for any clips that need to be over-ridden to Rec.709, Premiere's proxy process only produces HLG proxy media. I demo'd this to the engineers some weeks back now. And got an ... "oops, that's not supposed to happen ... " response.

Yea, oops, ya think?

But we're still awaiting the fix. And no, I haven't been able to get a workaround for this or I'd have posted it and updated the FAQ about it.

Btw ... here's the two FAQs ... what's changed in Pr2022, how to work within the new system, and what's broken in the first one. And if you do want to be working in HDR, how to setup your monitors with Pr2022 as that also changed in this build series.

Neil

FAQ:PremierePro 2022 Color Management for Log/RAW Media

How to Set Monitors for HDR work in Premiere Pro 2022?

[rjd253]

Thank you Neil! This helped me a LOT. 😃

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, these changes were more than was 'seen' in the public beta, which I'm always working with to see what's going on.

And ... I was a little miffed (to be very, very polite) that this massive a change wasn't more emphasized to the users. Like even, me. But from the responses, I think the Premiere team published as much about the changes as they were allowed to.

Adobe can be very odd about the amount, type, and quality of 'help' information they share.

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

 @R Neil Haugen 

 Neil, thank you for your extremely informative and patient posts about the changes to color correction.

I'm pretty sure that we would have had a great deal of fan fare about the chabges if events like NAB and IBC were happening as usual.

- Warren 

[R Neil Haugen]

Thanks, Warren ... and for being around here yourself. There's a TON of complicated workflow issues where your knowledge blows me away ... and is so useful for all us other users.

As to would we have had more hoopla about a real MAX live release or NAB? Probably, that's a point. I've commented (as noted here) that under the circumstances that appertain now, they really should have done more.

You know the public beta versions, they've got that beaker icon in the upper right corner with new changes showing if there's a blue dot? You click the icon, you get explanations of what's new. And you can check through and see all recent changes as they've been added.

I've STRONGLY suggested they add that to the 'shipping' versions, but ... the response is they don't see what the use would be.

???????????????????????????

Neil

[thechristianedwards]

I am having the same issue with my FX6 however I do not want to have to make this adjustment for every single clip I import. This is beyond frustrating. My working color space in the sequence is set to rec.709 - that should be enough, why do I need to select that interpretation for every clip after import. If you can help me revert back or point me in the direction of some fix, please let me know.

thanks

[R Neil Haugen]

First thing ...yea, it's a big shock of a change. No question, especially as there's some issues with implementation.

Next ... no, you don't need to change every clip individually. Select an entire bin (you can even do a quick search bin to get them all at one time throughout the project!) ... and do the right-click/Modify/Intepret Footage process. This way it's done once, taking only a few seconds.

Why the change? Because Premiere is finally getting moved into the current decade for color managment.

Has it been perfectly implemented? Um, not hardly.

Soon we'll have complete color management controls, and the full set must include CM settings with override options for media, for timelines, for viewing, and for export. That's the only way the user can totally set things to their needs.

Right now, it's a royal pain, and some media is not being 'interpreted' correctly by Premiere. That's acknowledged and they're working on it.

Neil

[Baffy19]

I'm glad to hear that the process has started 👏 The main thing is that everything works like clockwork ☝️

[andrea_stewart]

Thank you so much. This was confusing as heck for me. I've never had to interpret my footage on ingest before. Would have never looked there. And why the heck the clip looked LOG in the Source monitor and with a LUT in the Program monitor made no sense. Also the shift in color space between proxy and full res was also gonna cause a ton of headaches for me.

I guess I need to really read the "What's New" when I update next time.  I had done Adobe Max but didn't recall anything about this change in Color Management processes.

[R Neil Haugen]

My biggest criticism of the changes was the lack of the warning and simple declaration that everything in color managment/processing had changed. I've complained of that lack both here and in person.

I have the feeling that some of the M&E types well up above the program teams thought that would be confusing or something, at any rate. the teams apparently (from experience reading Adobe tea leaves here!) told us all they were allowed. Huh.

Because the 2022 version WAS a complete change in color management, all color mathematical calculations, default behaviors, even user control and controls.

Neil

[devinc26194246]

Kevin-Monahan, I fail to see why footage imported into any NLE looking different than how it was shot without some kind of modification made by the editor is anything BUT a bug. This was a terrible decision by Adobe and should be undone. You all have absolutely screwed with my workflow and have now caused me to take an extra step to undo what you've done each time I import an Slog3 clip from my FX6. 

[bam11247]

Kevin, you and the rest of the clowns at Adobe are worthless. It's now March and you idiots still haven't fixed this!? I'm not going through my projects clip by clip and interpret them just to have normal looking footage again! This is ridiculous, what were you idiots thinking when you put in this bug, oops I mean, feature? All you at Adobe are an absolute joke! 

[R Neil Haugen]

No reason to do clip by clip. You can select up to entire bins, or even do a Search bin, and select all, modify/ and set their CM settings all at once.

And ... btw ... in Resolve, we've had to do this for several years as they have had user-controlled CM settings since forever. It's just "new" that there's some user-controllable CM now in Premiere.

Neil

[Baffy19]

According to the function that translates SLOG/RAW formats into color management, I also did not see his work. The material did not show up and remained unprocessed. The only thing that works in this new function is its interpretation for the final output. The LUT usage mode does not work properly. I noticed that he applies it on the timeline when opening clip icons, BUT THE COLOR GRADATION IS NOT DISPLAYED IN THE PROGRAM MONITOR VIEWPORT.

[bam11247]

You clowns at Adobe should be sorry for a whole lot of things! 

How in the world can you make this drastic change to the color management workflow and not inform your users at all?! You as a company have zero disregard for your paying costumers and do whatever you like and assume we're just going to take it! 

I hope Blackmagic eats your lunch with Davinci Resolve and steals your customers. 

Everyone on this forum, please, trash your premiere and switch over to Davinci, it is SOOO much better than this garbage app. Plus we'll no longer have to deal with clowns like Kevin here. 

[R Neil Haugen]

Totally understand the frustration. I've been rather frank with a couple of the Adobe people I've worked with over the years on the Premiere team, that this roll-out wasn't as ... informative ... as it should have been. The changes are puzzling, with new controls spread all over the freaking app. Completely reversed default behaviors for many things. Yea, it's hammered some users.

But a frustration for the team members is that what they put out publicly has to be handled by M&E, Marketing and Experience staff ... who actually are the people up above the product staff, and are the ones who make the major decisions.

So the developers from any of the apps, whether Premiere, Illustrator, whatever, only have a partial say in what is publicly distributed for changes in versions and such. It is not a system I would design, but ah well, that's just Life. My feeling is the Premiere 'team' would have preferred a more direct approach, but M&E thought it would be too much details and most users wouldn't understand anyway.

As that's what the M&E people from Adobe seem to gravitate to time after time.

And interesting that you think that BlackMagic is so hot. There's a couple very active threads on the BlackMagic forums (the direct equivalent to this forum) where long-time users are trashing BlackMagic for paying no attention to user needs, abandoning their Pro users for the YouTube crowd.

Things like expensive camera models not getting a firmware update in years, no comments from BM. Bugs in Resolve that are acknowledged but not fixed over several versions. They've got a long list of things they're unhappy with. Oh, pretty much like ... you.

BlackMagic provides software cheap in order to get people to buy their hardware. A very different profit model than Adobe's. For example, in Premiere, my Tangent Elements panel is a Swiss Army knife tool, not only awesome for color but useful for audio track mixing pans/volumes/assigns, resizing/rotating screen elements whether graphics or whatever, anything you can think of I can map.

In Resolve ... it's totally controlled by Resolve, I can't change any mappings. And more than half of that large array of wheels, knobs, and buttons is "dark" at any one moment, unused.

Why? They want me to buy BlackMagic panels. Which only work with BlackMagic software. I can't use them with Adobe, Avid, anything.

It's a different approach, and I've got friends that LOVE working anything in Resolve. I use it almost every day, I appreciate the depth and breadth of the color tools, but I hate the UI. And it bugs me I can't move things around to where I'd prefer they be.

To each their own.

These apps are tools. Fancy hammers. Use whichever one works for your needs. And that may change over time. Ain't none of them perfect.

Neil

[Invisage Studios]

This isn't a feature at all - it's terribly implemented. By default it should do NOTHING to the footage.

Those who WANT to use it can enable it as they wish.


Here I am trying to transcode Sony FX6 Slog3 footage to a proxy in media encoder.... do you think there's a setting to turn off colour management? 

Nope....

Massive fail guys.

[DataBass]

EPIC FAIL!  

[R Neil Haugen]

What's the fail you're having? And which specific build of Pr2022 are you using?

Last, have you tried the public beta ... which can be installed alongside the 'shipping' just fine. Open a 2022 project in beta, try something, close it. Open in 2022 shipping no problem.

And I think there's some S-log color management options in the public beta not in the shipping version yet.

Neil

[DataBass]

I just can't believe after 20 years of premiere updates that this is actually a change you implemented.   Do any of the Adobe engineers actually edit or use the platform?  Doesn't seem so to me and many of us here.    I had to revert to 2021 media encoder so my Sony FX6 footage didn't have this weird ugly AUTO LUT applied.   Reading the comments I can see I am NOT alone.  Hopefully you can fix this and perhaps the next time Adobe will ask actual editors what they thing about major changes.    

[R Neil Haugen]

Um, you do realize I'm a user like you, right? Personally, I'm a bit ticked at them about the rollout of this new color system myself, been clear here and in-person at the Adobe booth at NAB about that last week.

And if you've actually read anything ... that isn't any LUT being applied, it's a change in the underlying color management practices of the app, and that set of changes also require users to participate in that color management. Pr2021 and earlier were Rec.709 centric, assuming Rec.709 for everything.

Pr 2022 will 'assume' either Rec.709 or Rec.2100/HLG/PQ based on the media it 'sees'. And change the display of the media to fit. Which is totally differnt behavior than before.

The user has settings that weren't there before to set or override Pr2022's "assumption".

And that's a HUGE change from the 2021 and previous series. It's something we users have needed and I've pushed for. But it's been a bit rough for some format/codec combinations.

The public beta has a gorgeous transform for S-log3.cine to Rec.709. Transforms by the by are so much more complex and capable than a stupid LUT, preferable anytime someone has a god one.  So "the future" will be fine when this is all rolled out.

But getting there is a few months of Hades for some of us. Sigh.

But that's why the public beta is the  best place for S-log3.cine media for now. Soon they'll have those additional changes in a "shipping" build update.

Neil

(And yes, every engineer and super I've ever talked with is a dedicated user of these apps themselves. But they don't have control of what UpperManagement decides to order them to do.)