Technology Sneek Peek: Adobe® Mercury Playback Engine

[dradeke]

Hi guys,

Been working on this blog post for what seems like forever.  I hope you enjoy it.  Please be sure to post comments there and not here...or at least if appropriate post in both places. 😉

http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/11/technology_sneek_peek_adobe_me.html#more

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Dennis

[Harm_Millaard]

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

[tclark513]

Harm Millaard wrote:

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

Harm,

You beat me to it...thanks for answering to the other post!  I was just about to ask Dennis the same thing.

[Harm_Millaard]

You know how to reward me...points, tapes, and you have the rest for the future.

[tclark513]

Harm Millaard wrote:

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

Maybe Wil can shed some light on this.  I noticed he's been on the forum today.

Wil?

[tclark513]

Harm Millaard wrote:

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

Dennis?

[dradeke]

Harm Millaard wrote:

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

Harm,

At this point in time, I don't honestly know, but I'll venture a guess.  As GPU's become more general processing units instead of graphics, the need for memory will probably be greater.  I would say that the greater memory would win out.  I'll check though and if I get anything I'll offer the information up...

Dennis

[tclark513]

dradeke wrote:

Harm Millaard wrote:

Dennis,

I hope you are awake and fresh after a good night's rest, because I have a question for you regarding MPE and it's performance impact.

Situation: 2 CUDA capable video cards are for sale and the only difference is clock speed and memory.

1. Standard clock speed for the GPU and memory with 2 GB memory.

2. Overclocked GPU and memory to 105% over standard with 1 GB memory.

What is more effective with MPE, the higher clock speed or more memory?

Conventionally in CPU/memory terms I would say the emphasis should be on memory, but does the same apply to MPE?

Harm,

At this point in time, I don't honestly know, but I'll venture a guess.  As GPU's become more general processing units instead of graphics, the need for memory will probably be greater.  I would say that the greater memory would win out.  I'll check though and if I get anything I'll offer the information up...

Dennis

Thanks for checking Dennis...this is going to be very important information!

[Harm_Millaard]

Thank you Dennis. I'm sure I'm not alone in awaiting further info.

[Curt Wrigley]

Be careful with "CUDA Capable" if you intend to use them with the future MPE.   The info Dennis linked to in his blog specifies very specific cards.

[Powered_by_Design]

I know we will find out more as it gets closer to release.

But I wonder if the new MPE is only CUDA ?

Or will the new ATI 5970 work as good ?

Any ideas Denis ?

Thanks: Glenn

[Bill Gehrke]

MPE is CUDA specific.

ATI cards will never take advantage of MPE.

[dradeke]

You guys are so bad!   You've 'acronyzed' The Mercury Playback Engine down to MPE! too funny...

"MPE" is definitely CUDA only at this time.  ATI card are not going to give you this feature.

Dennis

poweredbydeign wrote:

I know we will find out more as it gets closer to release.

But I wonder if the new MPE is only CUDA ?

Or will the new ATI 5970 work as good ?

Any ideas Denis ?

Thanks: Glenn

[jabloomf1230]

Dennis,

The Mercury engine looks phenomenal, but I'm a bit confused on one aspect, so bear with me. As you know, Elemental Technologies (Badaboom etc.) and others for that matter have developed CUDA-based h264 encoders that really speed up the encoding process. Does your example with AME CS5 work the same way? It seems to me from the "sneak peak" video that CUDA was only used for the render the final frames out of PP and each frame was then passed on the AME, which still used only the CPU to encode the output file in whatever final format you select. Is that because the encoders are often licensed to Adobe (from people like MainConcept, etc.) and you have no control in how the encoders use  the GPU vs. CPU? It looks to me like the way AME will work is same way that TMPEGEnc XPress 4 encodes files; filter usage and rendering frames are CUDA-based, but encoding is done by the CPU. I guess if you have 8 CPU cores to play with, it shouldn't matter.

Like I said, I could be confused about this. In any case, I can't wait for CS5. I'm weary of using intermediate codecs and/or previewing at lower resolutions, just to get a RT preview.

J

[dradeke]

The brains behind the Mercury Playback Engine gave a nuanced answer but I will summarize it by saying that a) as long as you have enough memory and processing power to fit the number of layers and source sizes then it's a non-issue b) he indicated that memory was more important than clock speed.

[Harm_Millaard]

Now the only thing we have to wonder about is in what configurations the GTX-380 will be brought to market. Combine that with the i7-980X and you will have a monster...

[Powered_by_Design]

After reading your blog November 2009 - Dennis on the MPE

http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/11/

I see that the GTX 285 is one of the supported cards.

I know they have the GTX 295 that has more cores.

What is the reasoning behind the supported cards ?

does it have to do with drivers ?

Just wondering since the 295 seems better to me and I dont know why the 295 is listed as a supported card.

Thanks:  Glenn

[dradeke]

poweredbydeign wrote:

After reading your blog November 2009 - Dennis on the MPE

http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/11/

I see that the GTX 285 is one of the supported cards.

I know they have the GTX 295 that has more cores.

What is the reasoning behind the supported cards ?

does it have to do with drivers ?

Just wondering since the 295 seems better to me and I dont know why the 295 is listed as a supported card.

Thanks:  Glenn

Glenn,

Right now, I'm answering questions like this all the time!   The only difference is what card we're talking about. These are fair questions to be sure, but we just don't know the answers yet and there are a lot of moving parts in how this ultimately is answered.

Will we have more cards when this technology is including in a future version of Premiere Pro? YES.

Will we strive to make a mix of middle and high-end cards? YES.

Will we inform our customers? YES.

Do I know if the (_fill in the proposed card model here_) card will be on the list?  Sadly, no.

To reiterate - as soon as I have more information to share, you can be sure that Adobe and I will.

Hope this helps,

Dennis

[Powered_by_Design]

Thanks it helps.

One thing I was wondering about was for me I have a nvidia 9800GT running CS4 but on the adobe site one of the supported cards are the 9800GTX.

I was just wondering on what makes a card supported ?

Is it because adobe has tested that card and given it an OK ?

I know cards will be added later for the next version and you will let us know when you know.

Thanks:  Glenn

[the_wine_snob]

Dennis,

I just want to say thank you, and give you something to pass along to the development team.

Getting the "word" out to the user-base is great, as it does help us greatly in making decisions for the future. Most of us can see the potential down-side of that, as Adobe is first in the business of selling software. That some users might put off purchases now, while waiting for the new and improved to make its way through the pipeline, I think that it is more than off-set by users making the right decision, even if the purchase is 6 mos. into the future.

All too often in life, we find that our "latest & greatest" purchase should have been delayed by a few days, as some new product shifts the paradigm greatly. If this results in fewer upgrades to CS4, I think that it will likely be offset by happier users, who were informed to wait a bit and go with CS5. A happy user-base beats a few upgrades in my book, though I am not in marketing.

We appreciate the time that you've taken with this information, and also for taking our questions. You are certainly doing your part to keep the Adobe user-base happy, and well-informed. Now, can you make the CS5 upgrade free, or even include a free high-end nVidia CUDA card? That would make us REALLY happy.

Thanks,

Hunt

[medeamajic]

I can not wait to see the list of supported cards. I hope we get PP SC 5 soon.

I don't no about the rest of you but I can not wait. It is like finding out what your getting for Christmas and then having to wait for Christmas to finally arrive.

I am surprised there is not a video demo of the MBE on the home page.

[the_wine_snob]

It is like finding out what your getting for Christmas and then having to wait for Christmas to finally arrive.

It's just like when some of us were kids - you gotta' wait patiently, and also be good!

Hunt

[tclark513]

medeamajic wrote:

I can not wait to see the list of supported cards. I hope we get PP SC 5 soon.

I don't no about the rest of you but I can not wait. It is like finding out what your getting for Christmas and then having to wait for Christmas to finally arrive.

I am surprised there is not a video demo of the MBE on the home page.

Should be in April...

Bottom of page:

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2009/12/14/adobes-mercury-playback-engine-for-cs5-is-cuda-only!...

[Chuck_A__McIntyre]

I guesstimated March 2010...

B.T.W. another great article by Dennis... We appreciate your knowledgeable input in the forum. You and your family have a great Christmas as well as the rest of you guys and gals.

[PaulieDC]

Funny, I started out on a 24" 1920x1200 monitor using Premiere so I'm hooked. All my video footage is 16:9 because of the 5D2 output, so the widescreen monitor allows me to get bigger Source and Output views. A second standard monitor like a 19: 1280x1024 monitor is nice to put other items (like a browser with Adobe Forums... ) and maybe a PDF doc with some editing tips, etc. But it also gives me a monitor to run a completed project on a non-widescreen monitor so I can see how it fares. Guess that's a habit from webpage design.

Anyway, HARM: that JVC doesn't state if it's an IPS panel monitor, which it should be for that kind of money I would think. This Eizo is half the price and uses true IPS panel technology: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/651901-REG/Eizo_CG243W_BK_ColorEdge_CG243W_24_1_Widescreen.htm.... But, educate me here since I come from a still background... is that not as necessary for video work? For still work in PS the IPS panels offer the truest color on the planet at the moment.

Lastly, for an amzingly low price, you could get a 24" 1920x1200 monitor that you'd be happy with for a long time and still have a few bananas left over to spend on something else: The Dell U2410... lists for $599, insanely great picture, and boasts a 110% Color Gamut (even a 96% AdobeRGB Gamut. Whoa!). It also has an unbelievable 80,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio... that's some seriously rich blacks! And, it has a 3 year warranty that gets you a replacement if ONE pixel goes white on you. Very nice:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=32...

[Harm_Millaard]

Paulie,

Based on a recent test the Eizo shows weaknesses in SD mode. Sure it is a nice one and has attractive pricing, so it definitely is worth to look at, but for real post work, albeit at completely different prices, three alternatives are the JVC DT-V24 L3D (glossy display), the Panasonic BT-LH 2550E (cumbersome to operate) or the Sony PVM-L 2300 (extravagant price and bulky format). They all offer much better build quality and better results than the Eizo, but require deep pockets. The Eizo is far better than any Dell, HP or similar. Eizo is best in its price class, an absolute winner.