Timecode Workflow - Pr&Au

[Iceking007]

Hello,

I have a beginner question for everyone.  Is it possible to take your post data, import the footage w/camera audio into Pr, do all of your editing/colour grading etc.  Separately mix your Audio in Au, then sync that all together in Pr with the embedded timecode?

Obviously you'd need footage in Au, so perhaps you can sync in Au from timecode and either replace the camera audio, or keep separate stints?

I'm basically trying to design a workflow, is there a point to importing ALL of your audio/stems/music etc into Premiere IF your just going to mix/master in Au?  Is there a benefit to using the Dynamic Link or should you just keep this separate, export your 3.1/5.1 and import to Pr.

(Using timecode and external audio is new to me but I'm not really a beginner to Adobe)

Thank you for your time.

P.S.  I build my sequences as 5.1, I default with three adaptive audio tracks; is there a better way to do this?  Should I specify mono tracks?  Should I have a 5.1 track for my final audio?

P.P.S.  I also noticed an anomaly, recording in my new setup I had four (4) audio tracks with my footage (Panasonic AG-DVX200 & AtomOS Shogun Inferno), the first two tracks were blank but the other two (3&4) audio tracks had my recorded audio.  With playback the audio was showing on the levels mixer as tracks 3 and 4 as you'd expect (I only had 4 audio tracks in the levels not the 6 for a 5.1 sequence?!).  When I selected a sequence with just two audio tracks, imported the same footage and got my two audio tracks (no blank tracks like before).  When I played that back only the first track in the level mixer; regardless of which track was playing, including if they were both playing (still just 4 audio level indicators).

I'm open to recommendations/suggestions, thank you.

[Jim_Simon]

In my experience, the work flow between Premiere Pro and Audition isn't sufficiently workable unless you can actually achieve Picture Lock and only work on audio once that's achieved.

As I never receive Picture Lock, using Audition was never viable for me.  There doesn't exist sufficient methodology to go back and make new edits.

To make this work, I believe Audition first needs the capacity to open a PP sequence in a way that allows us to add or delete tracks, add, delete or trim clips, etc.  Secondly, Audition must do all it's work via metadata that can be processed in PP so that we can send the work back without creating any new files.  This back and forth needs to be seamless and fully non-destructive.

Adobe just isn't there yet.

[Iceking007]

Okay so IF I am understanding you correctly... you prefer to edit both video and audio at the same time, and you find Audition doesn't do that well? (In a back and forth fashion)

What if you had all of the video edited, then you concentrated on the audio.  So essentially just use camera stereo track in Pr to get the footage right, but then send that and the production audio into Au to mix/master.

Can you not timecode sync audio and video in Audition?

Thank you for your point of view.

(Which program do you use for audio editing?)

[Jim_Simon]

you prefer to edit both video and audio at the same time,

Not necessarily.  I just need the ability to go back and make changes right up until Client Approval.  Any time before Client Approval, either video or audio could need changes.

The current exchange between PP and AU doesn't make that as easy as I want it to be.

Currently, I'm actually using DaVinci Resolve for my post work.  With the inclusion of both Fusion (for effects) and Fairlight (for audio), Resolve offers exactly the kind of work flow I need.

[Iceking007]

That's understandable.  I would think the dynamic link would provide you with that; I've always had success in the past with it.  I'm thinking I might mix my audio and then send it to premiere in stems, once it's ready for final export then I'll export a high quality audio file and add that to the footage before Me or En.

I too am looking at Resolve; very enticing these days!

[Richard van den Boogaard]

Unfortunately, the integration between Au and PPro is not identical to the way dynamic linking works between PPro and Ae. I wish it was and have requested this several times.

However, with the Audio Track Mixer, you can achieve a lot of what Au does right inside PPro. If you twirl down the arrow in the top left corner, you are presented with a set of effects channels to which you can add a wide selection of effects (most identical to those in Au). I typically add a Multi-band compressor (Broadcast) to any voice recordings to boost them, for example.

What's more, since the most recent edition, you can now re-arrange the order of effects by dragging & dropping them in the preferred position. Try it, you might like it.

[Iceking007]

Yes I am aware of the audio features in Pr, good if you're just doing something simple/quick; not really designed for heavy audio work... which is what I'm working towards doing more of.

Didn't realize that about the link between Au-Pr.  I assumed all the links worked the same, I've even done work between Ps and Pr/Ae/En.

I'll have to try it for my self and see what you two mean.  Guess my proposed working method might be the best; treat them as separate entities and forget about the dynamic link.

Thank you for that input.

[Jim_Simon]

Didn't realize that about the link between Au-Pr.

The Dynamic Link part only relates to video.  It allows you to see the video in Audition without rendering it out of PP first.

The audio work flow is the same old method.  Export new audio files out of PP for Audition to work on destructively, send those new files back to PP added to a sequence, thus losing your ability to go back into Audition.

[Iceking007]

OH!

(It's been so long since I've done audio work; I cannot remember all of that lol.)

I can see how that would be a pain; if you have to go and make changes... I can envision Adobe simple workarounds for that but you are both direct, that shouldn't have to be the case.

I think I'm mentally prepared; just need to get to it lol.

Thank you again.

[R Neil Haugen]

Jim, it's only "destructive" if you use the Waveform editor in Audition. Which is what naturally happens if you select "Edit/Edit in Adobe Audition/Clip". If you send the full sequence over, it's not destructive.

"Export to Premiere" adds the brought-back audio as new tracks below the current audio.

Neil

[Iceking007]

Wow, that's confusing.

I think I'm going to sign out of this discussion haha.

You pro users can negotiate the hostages on your own! ( ;

[R Neil Haugen]

It's so bloody confusing, isn't it?

It would be nice IF they would give complete and concise documentation on how this sort of thing actually like ... works. As they don't well ... if you haven't run into someone who knows someone who knows, you don't know what you don't know, do you?

Neil

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present for your consideration...

There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ...

  ... The Adobe Zone.

[Iceking007]

I'm not really sure what you mean... It seems as though you're mocking me and want me to read the instructions/user manual.  But then it seems like you are being sarcastic?

Anyways, I came on here to get help from those that do know so I am sorry if I upset you.

As for Adobe... well, we can only cross our fingers.  Those of us who were around in the 'good--ol-days' remember just how GOOD we had it (before CC).  But that's unrelated to my post.

[R Neil Haugen]

I have no clue how you could find my comments mocking or in any way poking anything at you.

I agreed with you that it's confusing, and jabbed at Adobe Corporate for the company wide Jack of decent documentation.

IF they provided adequate documentation  ... and I can easily point out the manual for Resolve as a comparison  ... then it would be a heck of a lot easier for everyone to figure this out. Especially for say workflows requiring the inter-linking of two complex apps.

Neil

[Jim_Simon]

If you send the full sequence over, it's not destructive.

You've said that before, but never offered come clarification.

As I haven't used any version of 2019, I'll need your help on this.

When you send over the sequence, is PP creating new audio files for Audition to work on?

[Jim_Simon]

"Export to Premiere" adds the brought-back audio as new tracks below the current audio.

That's part of the problem.  The ideal scene, the way it works in DaVinci Resolve, is the audio software should read and work on the original media and tracks, never needing to create anything new.  That makes possible a very simple back and forth for changes to either the edit or the audio.