Video NOISE in exported H.264 file only, original footage is clean

[Technovation]

Hi,

Filmed using a brand new Sony FS7, in 4k. Original footage is clean and great.

Edited for several months to find at the end that every exported file in different formats has horrible video noise that is simply not in the original footage.

How come premiere is adding noise?

We have made sure that in the the export settings for the H.264 we have ticked "Render at maximum depth" and "Use maximum render quality".

Do we pay for Adobe Premiere to make our beautiful original footage look horrible?

I came across this article:

http://nofilmschool.com/2014/09/massive-difference-export-quality-fcpx-and-premiere-pro

So is Adobe Premiere H.264 export quality meant for amateurs and home videos?

Does anybody have a clue what is going on with the bad quality H.264 export of premiere?

Thank you

[shooternz]

What did you do to it to wreck it.?

PPro does not add noise to my exports. FWIW

I just posted some in another recent thread. about same issue  Lumetri color adjustment causes red break-up

[Technovation]

Shooternz, I'm trying to answer the questions you have asked in the post you referred to:

Source file is an MXF from Sony FS7

I haven't done any legalisation stuff (do I need to? it's for theatrical release for film festivals)

We haven't transcoded anything before bringing it to the timeline, unless Adobe premiere is doing it.

[R Neil Haugen]

Hope this doesn't "doublepost" as I just responded but it isn't showing ...

The exported clip is a lot darker (which could easily be a gamma change) and has major banding issues ... across that wall area you circled. That's caused by spreading out 8-bit values too far so the 'edge' of the changes show.

All of which leads me to ask ... did you view and screen-grab the exports from having re-imported them into PrPro, or from a media player on your computer such as Quicktime?

Neil

[Technovation]

screen grabs of exports were taken from windows media player.

I have applied an adjustment layer (for colour) using the Arri Alexa SpeedLooks Camera Patch in Adobe speedgrade to the whole film and an adjustment layer in adobe premiere to reduce master saturation to 60%. It is not the way to grade a film, but we just needed to submit a screener with a very tight deadline. Now we need to provide the festival with a clean version.

not familiar with "banding", how do I avoid that?

[R Neil Haugen]

Apparently you didn't read down through the comments?

There are some settings in the PrPro/AME export dialog he didn't mention that make huge differences in the output, so depending on how those were set you could easily have that as the issue. He doesn't say ... so basically, his 'test' is worthless.

Now ... as to your issues, there are some folks that 'hang' around here that are pretty hot & experienced at pro level encoding of deliverables, having done that for years. How about working this through? Post a few screen grabs of your original footage, on the sequence, and exported including screengrabs of the export settings. Also ... include shots of the scopes especially RGB parade & waveform, as that can tell a lot about how the media was shot & also how it's been graded.

Let's see if "we" can help you ...

Neil

[Technovation]

Here are the export settings:

exported H.264

I will add the original in a moment

[R Neil Haugen]

Btw ... shooter is one of the better ones on here for handling projects through to deliverables. Use his brain/experience, he's good at this ...

Neil

[Technovation]

Original footage

[Technovation]

I'm adding one more comparison:

Exported noisy:

vs original footage:

[Technovation]

Am I doing something wrong in the export settings?

I have read elsewhere that I should have VBR, 2 pass. What else should I do? or not do?

Thank you

[shooternz]

he issue you have is called "banding".

Not sure what to suggest in your instance.  The data rate should be fine.

Some might suggest adding a touch of Grain (Noise) before exporting.

Its a very flat image and that tone is prone to banding.  I would try a little more contrast and punch.

I haven't done any legalisation stuff (do I need to? it's for theatrical release for film festivals)

No.

[Technovation]

Is it a matter of colour correction? not problem with export setting?

What do I need to change?

Actually the noise is in all exported versions, before and after applying colour correction in adobe speedgrade

[R Neil Haugen]

If you could post a screengrab of the clip in PrPro's program viewer with the scopes right beside it ... maybe both before & 'after' any work you've done ... that would be great. Seeing the scopes would give shooter & I a wealth of info ...

Neil

[R Neil Haugen]

Now ... banding ...

Ok, you have an 8-bit file, it has only 255 discrete different levels between 0 (black) and 255 (pure white). If you change the lightness of an area, especially a lighter area, it doesn't have a lot of 'room' for change before you've spread the bits of data around so they can't 'cover' all 255 values, there are gaps. Say you pull the middle values down a bit, and where it might have had a complete full 'string' of values in the upper regions, you might now have data in say value 182 & 185 but nothing in the 183 & 184 spots. Get a few points where you're missing more than 2 values, you start seeing banding.

10-bit image files can be made to 'band' but you have to work at breaking them.

So ... just a bit of info on what banding is. Which ... those wavy lines on that wall? That's banding.

Neil

[Technovation]

[Technovation]

RGB values before applying any colour correction

[R Neil Haugen]

What video format settings did you use shooting in camera? That rig can do RAW with external recorders, and ProRes 422 internally besides 'smaller' color spaces ... that footage looks very 'flat' coming in, implying some sort of RAW or log settings perhaps ...

Neil

[Technovation]

We agreed with DOP: 4K 25P VBR, bit rate 250Mbps, we also agreed 4:2:2 10 bit.

[Technovation]

Waveform before applying colour correction (disabled tracks that have adjustment layers)

[Technovation]

All scopes (before colour correction)

[Technovation]

[Technovation]

What grain would you recommend? the one that comes with premiere or do you prefer a third party commercial one?

I use overlay, right? around what percentage should I start?

[R Neil Haugen]

I would NOT expect 422 10-bit to band like that ... hmmm.

Neil

[Technovation]

I managed to get information on original footage:

Does 4:2:2 always imply it is 10 bit? or can it also be an 8 bit?