DavidNJ wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if a more accurate customer survey showed most of us, are better with alternatives other than JLK. Regrding your charge about a "more accurate survey," I've told you a number of times about the Adobe Product Improvement Program. Thousands of editors are enrolled. This program covers a broad cross section of users, including those that don't use Premiere Pro all that often. The information we get from these users is completely objective. There's no conspiracy here, my friend. Kindly, look into it. Adobe Product Improvement Program ... View more

Jim Simon wrote: that part of the keyboard is under your left hand. JKL is under your right hand. No.  All keyboard shortcuts are under the left hand, the mouse is under the right hand. That's the way I was trained too at Avid school. It took a long time, but in FCP, I evolved into an all keyboard workflow with little or no mouse use. Despite all the improvements made for keyboard editors, you still can't escape using the mouse at some point in an NLE.  Probably will never be able to entirely.  So...one hand on keyboard, one on mouse for most efficient flow. With FCP, you can. You can edit blindingly fast, if you know all your shortcuts. My hope is that Premiere Pro will someday be able to do the same. No it doesn't. Yeah, it does.  Efficient means "Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort."  Translation - faster is more efficient. I rather agree. While training editors over the past decade, the goal in mind was to finish tasks more quickly and efficiently. I used to say, "Get to Miller Time faster." Equating that faster speed equals the sooner you can get back to your real life! ... View more

jd2kku wrote: Just to chime-in on the the whole JKL issue: JKL works, but the shuttle control gave you an intuitive speed control that was fluid, granular and efficient. You can do the same with JKL. I can, and hope to show others how they can too. There is very little information about how to operate JKL properly out there on the web. I hope to change that. I could get through hours of footage like that, fast. I can do the same with JKL. I'm fast, as I don't touch the mouse. With the shuttle control in CS5, I could easily zip through minutes of footage at 3x speed (to get an overall feel for a scene), then slow down 1x speed (to watch the last few seconds), then to ~0.3x speed (to find my out point). I'd use the left and right arrow keys to get the out point frame perfect, hit O to set my out point, preview the edit with CTRL + SPACE, and finally hit ` (custom shortcut) to make a subclip. I can do the same. 3x speed? Type LLL 3x down to 1x speed? Type JJ Slow to .3x? Type K/L at the same time. Left and right arrows, previewing, subclips, etc. work the same way. I think the key is, the jog/shuttle controls needed little explanation to operate. While the JKL keys do much the same thing, the technique needs more explanation. ... View more

needles27 wrote: Feels like it isn't a huge deal for Adobe to bring back something in the next version which some people really rely on, and it can remain hidden for the people who don't care.  Nothing is impossible, but it isn't likely, as jstrawn mentions (he's an Adobe employee). You can't just "plop something back in" as you think you could. It will take software coding and testing to do that. Software coding and testing to put back a feature will take time away from developing other new features, or fixing critical bugs. Are you sure you want to do that? needles27 wrote: Feature requests filed, current software exists the way it does, future software may be different. Correct. Feature requests are here: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish ... View more

Steven Pribilinskiy wrote: This problem about the jog/shuttle control is rediculous. This is sooo stupid to remove an application feature. Sorry you feel that way. Most people are happy with what we've done. Keep in mind, no modern NLE even has jog/shuttle controls, and not many used them in the Product Improvement Program. Again, we knew certain existing users wouldn't be happy. I apologize to those people. There's a lot of Menu options in Main Menu and Context Menus and Panel Context Menus. Let's say I will never use the Fields Menu, and it takes two Menu items, a Separator and the Fields submenu. I will not send a Feature Request to remove it, because I know that some user may need it. Yes, but a feature like that doesn't have real impact on the interface as a larger set of controls were. As you know, we really wanted a much cleaner UI for Premiere Pro CS6. I never used the jog/shuttle, but I would not be irritated by a Menu Item Checkbox in Monitor's Context Menu called "Show Jog and Shuttle Controls" Anything is possible with software code. Please make a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish The JKL/Shift+JKL could be a bit enhanced A settings could be added in Preferences Playback section. Let go of K again: regular playback speed resumes Why it resumes at regular speed 1x and not on the current speed? This should be an option. Again, a feature request would be most welcome. Thanks. ... View more

DavidNJ wrote: Kevin, if you are in the Silicon Valley area Stanford has many marketing research courses; options include MKTG 365: Marketing Analytics, MKTG 641: Behavioral Research in Marketing I, and MKTG 642: Behavioral Research in Marketing II: Consumer Behavior. ' Your description is of a flawed marketing research strategy. It is equivalent to a politician using the wishes of those who show up at a fund raiser as representative of the overall electorate.   The answer was it was coming back. The issue is getting it back quickly.  Now we need to focus on the broken help system in addition to keeping jog and shuttle front and center until the functionality is returned.. David, I am from the Silicon Valley. I grew up down the street from 1 Infinite Loop. I went to San Jose State, so I don't believe anything out of Stanford! We have: the product improvement program, feature requests, and a beta test program. That is how we listen to our users. We do not bias or influence our users in any way. All we do is listen. I did tell you that we have a product improvement program. You can join. Please add your voice. As far as help being "broken" (besides the PDF, which is coming soon), I can help you with that. I write the Help. However, please start a new thread for your specific issue. Thanks. ... View more

Hi David, Glad you enjoyed the road show, and that you got some answers that you wanted to hear. Way to rally the troops for your feature request too. DavidNJ wrote: Which gets back to the user research that let to his. It was faulty, always biased toward users who had an active involvement with Adobe. Our methods are not biased at all. We have the Adobe Product Improvement Program that I mentioned in an earlier post. It's not for "users who are active with Adobe" or anyone special. The program is open to anyone that chooses to. It's made up of thousands of editors. Many are just like you. You can opt in yourself by just going to the Help Menu. Thanks. ... View more

Jason-W wrote: ...achieve the exact position I wanted, vs. madly pushing buttons while holding down keyboard modifiers. Not sure what you mean. JKL shuttle control operates without modifiers. But now it will probably require more "squeeking" that our little band of disgruntled users can make, The only leverage you have is a feature request. Sorry, a bunch of posts on the forum are not seen by the people that make those kind of decisions. They look at feature requests and data from the Product Improvement Program. to motivate them to reopen the issue, and spend the development time to put the controls back in (undoing work), and making them able to be hidden. The motivation is numbers. The number of feature requests, and the number of uses in the Product Improvment Program. I've pretty much gone through the 5 stages of grief, during this process and have arrived at reluctant acceptance with some lingering sadness. In time, the feeling will pass. We all go through it. ... View more

mhdiver wrote: How do you know not many people used jog/shuttle?  Communiucation with a select group of pro users?  An open survey would have been a good idea.  For the record, I've been using Adobe Premiere Pro since it was first released and I use jog/shuttle always. We know who used the feature (and who didn't) with our Product Improvement Program. Therefore, the sample was not a select group of uber-high end video editors, it was from thousands of editors like you. In essence, it is an open survey. Anyone can take part in the Product Improvment Program, and if you want to advocate for certain features you use all the time, then by all means, opt in! To opt in, do the following: Choose Help > Adobe Product Improvement Program. For details, see this post from the After Effects Product Manager, Steve Forde. ... View more

Andy Ramone wrote: This weekend I did my first "legit" project in CS6, and used the crap out of JKL, and have to report, it works the same to me as jog/shuttle. For those complaining, I suggest give it whirl. I don't miss the GUI option, the functionality is still there, regardless. editing was a breeze, and now that I know the functionality is there, I won't miss the previous workflow I used. Works for me. Sent from my iPhone Sweet! Thanks for the scene report! ... View more

JFPhoton wrote: New users should have the option of using the mouse based controls until they would be ready to switch to keyboard commands. We have tons of mouse based control. The only things we removed was jog/shuttle, which not many people used. JFPhoton wrote: llow a "hidden" jog/shuttle to return for those who like it....why anger any of your loyal customers?? Many things are possible with software coding. That's why I ask you to make a feature request for its return as customizable buttons: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish ... View more

DavidNJ wrote: Kevin, CS6 created an option to hide the buttons, which was made the default, and to customize the buttons. Yes, that's what our users wanted: customizability. So the claim that it saved screen space is false, As far as I can see, it saved a ton of space. One line of buttons as a default, instead of two. The option to remove all buttons is really cool. No other NLE has that. the users who didn't want it didn't have to have it and wouldn't have it as the default. Those who did want it were screwed. Sometimes companies change software for the greater good. In that process, it is extemely difficult to satisfy everyone. We found thorough empirical evidence (feature requests, the Product Improvement Program, etc.), that most users simply do not use these controls—not all users, most users. Removing the controls and buttons which few people use was a great idea for removing clutter. Avid removed their jog/shuttle controls for Media Composer, as did Apple for FCP X. No modern NLE even has jog/shuttle controls. "Premiere Pro is built for professional video editors", and your point is? My point is that professional editors expect an interface which can get the job done, but won't get in the way in the process. A clutter filled interface definitely gets in the way. We've gotten plenty of negative feedback about our interface in past versions. For NLEs, buttons and controls that are in the way should be removed in favor of keyboard shortcuts or as a customizable piece. A second point is that we are in the software business. We need to make a profit to continue creating Premiere Pro for you and everyone else. We need to get new users into every release, or we won't survive as a company. To attract new users, we want to offer them the best experience possible. We won many awards at NAB for Premiere Pro CS6, and many new users are coming in droves to Premiere Pro. In fact, we're setting records! My feeling is that we made the right decisions. Premier Pro is used by lots of people who use it professionally as PART of their work. If you only sold to people who used it for over 50% of their work my guess is Premier Pro  would have a very small market. We create Premiere Pro for professional editors, much like Photoshop is created for professional photographers. Catering to the pro market is one of our core strengths. However, we're only too happy that customers use our other products to enhance their work and who aren't full time users of one product or another. That's what forums, help, and video tutorials are for. We know JKL, we don't like it. Are you sure you know JKL technique? If so, I'm very sorry you don't like it, but most editors work that way exclusively. Let me write a blog that shows the technique. Touching the mouse as little as possible speeds up workflow. And we all want to work more reliably, don't we? It is far easier to move around with a mouse than remember 40 keystroke combinations. It's easier, but certainly not faster or more efficient. I've got far more than 40 shortcuts at my fingertips. My goal is to never touch a mouse, or pull down a menu. I'm not the only editor that feels this way. For example, moving between multiple tracks with multiple clips of video and audio, the program window, the project files, the trim window, the source window, right mouse click menus and subsequent dialogs (such as the frame rate window). Then moving to other parts of the app such as Audition and Media Encoder, in addition to Photoshop and Illustrator. Or Dreamweaver or Flash. Right now, you do need to use the mouse for certain functions in Premiere Pro. My hope is that in upcoming versions, I'll never need to touch it. For example, I can edit from start to finish in FCP or Avid without a mouse. Keystrokes are not an option. I'm sorry to disagree. For me, keyboard shortcuts are everything. Taking away an important feature for NO BENEFIT TO ANYONE since it was already optional in the new interface was a bad decision. No need to shout here. I suggest you make a feature request. If you've already done so, you've done your best. Nothing more can help you add the controls back as an option. ... View more

WesHaley wrote: What is so frustraiting about the whole thing is that you made the interace customizable, so you could have easily just left them in and let us add them back in if you wanted to. Perhaps there was no easy way to customize a jog wheel and shuttle controls? Software programming and engineering is never "easy." It's much more complex that you might think it is. Adding more code can break things in other places. Or perhaps there wasn't enough time to add them back in as customizable buttons? Again, a feature request might get these controls back in as a customizable feature. You do have to file it, though. ... View more

Hi DavidNJ, We know that removing the jog/shuttle controls would upset some existing users, and for that, I apologize. What we wanted to do was to reduce the amount of buttons and interface items on the Source and Record Monitors in the new release of Premiere Pro. Before CS6, there were a couple of dozen buttons that were drawn, taking up a good hunk of the interface, and less space for HD media. Just as Photoshop is for pro photographers, Premiere Pro is built for professional video editors. The editors out there in the working world are put off by interfaces that are not customizable (and by and large, favor JKL control). Before I came to Adobe, I was also put off by the interface (again, too many buttons, zero customizability). Now, I just love it. However, I come from a pro background and never used the jog/shuttle controls either. As a side note, I learned linear editng using only the keyboard, as the CMX gizmo on that system was toast. Later, I was trained in Hollywood on Avid systems and told to never use the jog/shuttle controls and to refine my touch with JKL. As a FCP instructor for years, I trained my students the same way. As Christian points out, the best thing you can do is file a feature request for jog/shuttle controls to be available as a customizable feature: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish I think a blog about controlling scrubbing with JKL just made my to-do list. ... View more