Shadow Problem with Essential Graphics and Collapse Transformations 3D Precomp

[Phi.Def]

This may be a bug, but I'm hoping someone has a solution.

I have a precomp with 3D layers using essential graphics (so I can create multiple versions). In my main comp, I have the camera and light. The shadow cast by the object in my 3D layer doesn't change accordingly when I alter some of the essential properties from their original default values (although, oddly, it does change accordingly when I change other essential properties).

Here are some screen shots to illustrate. My main comp is "Opening Title Animation" and my precomp is "Ripped Paper Generator".

Here's the main comp with the problem essential properties ("dimensions"and "random seed") set to default, but other essential properties adjusted ("paper scale" and "main paper z pos"). Here the shadow has correctly adjusted along with the parameters:

Here's the comp with the problem properties adjusted from their defaults ("dimensions" and "random seed"). The shadow has not changed.

Also, here's a shot of what's inside the precomp:

Attached is a solids-only, media-free, reduced version of the project. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Phi.Def]

Does anyone know why this is happening? Should I contact Adobe support?

[Phi.Def]

Help please! I'm really stuck with this one. I've put a lot of time into building this monster template. Thanks!

I've added a screenshot of what's inside the top precomp.

[Phi.Def]

I've attached a solids-only, media-free, reduced version of the project. Adjusting the scale property works fine, but the dimensions property changes only the object, not the shadow. Please take a look. Thanks!

[Phi.Def]

For anyone who encounters this thread in the future, I've got a solution. It took a day for Adobe tech support to come up with it, and I'm not sure why it fixes the issue, but it does.

Solution, switch the renderer (dropdown in bottom right corner of the composition panel) to Cinema 4D. (Doing so changes the way the lighting looks, so re-adjustment will be necessary.) That's it!

Anyone have any idea why this works and why the problem exists using the classic renderer?

[Phi.Def]

I spoke too soon! Changing the render engine solves the one problem but introduces another! Now the essential properties of the precomp don't adjust individually. If I change them in on one instance of the precomp, it changes them in all instances.

Still need help! Anyone?

[Mylenium]

It would seem that you have linked the various expressions across the comps in an odd way and thus they don't update. In particular the ones that trim and roughen up the edges seem to be affected. Impossible to say what is going on and we can throw around ideas all day, but it seems to me that there is posterizeTime() involved or some form of time-remapping. If that's the case, it may simply be an issue with an unexpected behavior. the project may have been created in an older version and in 2022 this stuff was changed. Anyway, you'd have to show us one of those comps and ideally also the flow chart for the comps.

Mylenium

[Phi.Def]

Thanks for your response.

I have created a new, extremely simple version of the project file (attached) with no roughen edges or posterizeTime(), and only a single precomp with a single shape layer within it, so it is extremely easy to see what's going on. Adjusting the "dimensions" essential property affects the box as expected, but the shadow doesn't follow suit. Adjusting the "Scale" and "Z Pos" essential properties seem to work fine though.

It may have something to do with the way it's rigged, although with this simpler project it's harder to imagine what that could be. If I can understand exactly why this isn't working, I may be able to figure out a workaround and alternative rigging. If you could take a look and help me make sense of it, I would be very grateful.

Thanks again!

[Phi.Def]

If you need anything else, please let me know. The most recently attached project file is extremely simple. The functioning of the two essential properties are very obvious. You can recreate the problem in four easy steps:

1. Create a new comp (1920×1080, name “Precomp”).
2. Add a new shape layer with a centred, 400×400, blue-filled rectangle (turn on: 3D layer checkbox, "accepts shadows" in the material options, and set layer Z position to -400).
3. Drag the rectangle path size property to the essential graphics panel properties for "Precomp".
4. Create a new comp (1920x1080, name "Main"), add:

• a camera
• a point light (casts shadows: on, Z position behind camera)
• the precomp (turn on collapse transformations and 3D layer checkboxes.)
• a red solid background (turn on 3D layer checkbox and "accepts shadows" in the material options)

Adjusting the rectangle size essential property changes the shape of the blue box, but the shadow does not correctly reflect changes from the default values.

Thanks again, I really really appreciate the help!

[Phi.Def]

As an update, I've recreated the problem with no rigging at all, so I don't see how this can possibly be a rigging issue. The project file is attached.

This project file simply has one (3D) shape layer in a precomp by itself. The rectangle path size property is an essential graphics property of the precomp. That's it - super simple. When this essential property is adjusted in the main comp, the shape is affected as expected, but the shadow is not.

(Project file of above screenshots is attached.)

I need to understand this problem and figure out a workaround in a much more complex project. Please help!

[DaciaSaenz]

@Phi.Def 

This may be an issue of set-up and the order in which values are calculated and rendered. Because the way the Render Order of Operations works,  the changes to the Size Parameter need to happen at the same Comp Level as the Camera and Light so that they can "see" the changes. 

I've attached a project where I moved the shape from your project out of the PreComp and onto the same level as the Camera and Light.

You can see that changing the Essential Property value in the timeline now renders the Shadow as expected. 

All that being said, I need to run this by some of the geniuses on the AE team. There might very well still be a bug here, or it may just be a limitation of how Essential Properties work.

But hopefully this can unblock you a bit? 

Cheers,

Dacia

[Phi.Def]

@DaciaSaenz Thanks for the response!

That's interesting. So with your workaround, I could add any needed camera/light/background properties to the essential graphics panel in order to do the many versions needed (as is the whole point of using the essential graphics panel to begin with).

The only problem is that, what I need to do is not simply create multiple versions with a single instance of the precomp in each, but I actually wanted multiple instances of the precomp (the 3D objects) appearing simultaneously and casting their shadows on each other in the same main comp (each with a variety of individually adjusted and animated properties). So this would only work if my precomp contained the maximum number of 3D objects I wanted to use at any given time, and I added a lot of controls in the essential graphics panel to control and animate the many parameters of each. I guess it's still theoretically a workaround, but it's much heavier, more complex, and more labour than would be needed if this functioned as expected.

Please update me if you get any more information about this. Thanks!

[Phi.Def · Accepted solution]

In case anyone's interested Adobe has now identified this as a bug. No timeline on when that's expected to be fixed.