Best rendering set up with multiple adjustment layers?

[Full of Eyes]

Hello there,

So, I'm working on a 4k (by which I mean 3840 x 2160) animated video. Each scene uses multiple (up to 100) 3D layers, 2D layers, and precomps, many with various transfer modes. On top of it all, I have three adjustment layers over the entire project (a synthetic aperture color adjust, a soft blur, and a vignette).

My question to you all is, do you think it would be "better" (by which I mean, easier on my computer / less likely to crash or run out of memory) to render each scene individually (I use TIFF sequences) and then re-render with the adjustment layers?

My thought there is that the computer doesn't have to think about adding the 3 adjustments to ALL those layers, rather, it would just add them to a single pre-rendered layer. However, I wonder if re-rendering like that will decrease the final quality? I think TIFF is lossless....but still. Also, it will certainly take longer.

Any thoughts on this?

PC info:

CPU: Intel 17-8700k @3.70Ghz

RAM: 64GB

Video Card: GEforce GTX 1070

OS: Windows 10 64bit

Let me know if you need any more info to evaluate the situation.

Thanks!

- Chris

[Dave_LaRonde]

The word "scene" raised my eyebrows.  What's the duration of this comp?

You can make the FINAL render go faster by prerendering with no adjustment layers, importing the prerender and putting the adjustment layers on it.  But will it speed OVERALL render time?  That's a tough call.  My guess is there would be little difference.

[Full of Eyes]

Ah, sorry, by "scene" I mean composition. There will be about 15 scenes/compositions when all is said and done; each as a separate render, obviously.

Thanks for your thoughts. So, as far as memory / cpu use during the render itself, would the pre-render route reduce the load?

[Dave_LaRonde]

That depends on the application where your rendered comps will be used next.   The stuff on the adjustment layers might be done faster in a video editing application, for example.

[Full of Eyes]

I'm taking it into premiere to finish it up, however I've never liked premiere's color correction as much as AE. I can give it a shot, though because I think you're right that Premiere would do the adjustments more quickly than AE....at the very least, it seems an un-adjusted render is the way to go at first.

[Dave_LaRonde]

A word of advice -- render out your stuff in AE.  Don't count on importing AE comps into PP with any great degree of success.  Dynamic Link, while handy, isn't one of Adobe's more robust features.

[Full of Eyes]

Righto--I always render out first for my final edit.

[Dave Merchant · Accepted solution]

From a workflow point of view it's never good practice to bake the 'grading' into the render. It'll probably take an age to chunk through all your layers, and if you then want to tweak the vignette you're stuffed.

Rendering a 'flat master' image sequence in something lossless and in at least the same bit depth as your project won't lose any fidelity. PNG or TIFF for 8-bit, EXR if you're working in full 32-bit.  Re-rendering the frame sequence with the adjustment layers on top will be extremely fast.

As to how much of an impact on RAM and timing those three layers have, likely not much but you can find out for yourself by disabling them, rendering a few frames and comparing the performance. Hidden adjustment layers don't figure at all in the render calculations.

[Full of Eyes]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Dave+Merchant  wrote

From a workflow point of view it's never good practice to bake the 'grading' into the render. It'll probably take an age to chunk through all your layers, and if you then want to tweak the vignette you're stuffed.

Very helpful, thank you!

[angie_taylor]

Also, why do you need three adjustment layers? Why not put all the effects on one adjustment layer?

I sometimes use the Proxy feature to render out a finished version of each comp as it’s completed. This way you can colour correct more quickly but you can use the proxy switch to change things if necessary.

[Full of Eyes]

I'm using different transfer modes for each adjustment layer so--as far as I know--I have to use three different layers.

Also--I'm not sure I know about the Proxy feature....

[angie_taylor]

Check out the Adobe online help for instructions on creating proxy files. However when I use it, I tend to output full res, uncompressed, then use the Proxy file in my final render. Not how it was designed to be used but very useful.

[angie_taylor]

It means you can render out a final version for color correction, but keep it in the same comp, with a handy on/off switch if you need to refer back to the original

[Dave Merchant]

theangietaylor  wrote

Not how it was designed to be used but very useful.

Proxies are designed for editing only. Color grading should always be done on the original media, because by definition the proxy doesn't have the same resolution/color depth and so it will look different on the ref monitor.

[angie_taylor]

As I said Dave, thats how Proxies work if you only use them

in. basic way and you dont adjust the settings. Im talking about a workflow I ha e developed where I use the Proxy feature to create a full Res, uncompressed render of my composition and have it replace the comp. its then used for the final

render.

I dont mean to disagree with you Dave but its not correct to say that Color Correction cant be done this way and should always be done on original

media. Its quite

common practice to use this technique for color correction in AE. As long as you render the file at full res and uncompressed (or lossless) it works a treat. I think Ive done a tutorial on the technique on Lynda.Com. I‘ll try to dig it out for you 🙂

[angie_taylor]

It will have EXACTLY the same resolution and color depth as long as you choose appropriate render settings and output module settings.

[Dave Merchant]

So what's the point? Proxies are solely intended to speed up playback, Grading happens after picture lock, it doesn't care if you can scrub around in real time. You're staring at still frames.

People who grade in professional applications (and AE is absolutely not one of them) don't work with proxy footage, period.

[angie_taylor]

With all due respect . . . The point is flexibility. Every professional motion graphic designer knows that often, at the late stages of a project, changes are requested by the client. In the “old days” the workflow you mention was correct, color correction only happened once everything was locked down and changes were not often possible. These days we are enabled be more creative and to discover workflows that go beyond the software’s original function. It happens all the time, this is how people in beta programs push the software to do things it wasn’t originally designed to do. This workflow isn’t just used by me, people on the AE team have endorsed it and other authors have written about it. So, although it may not be “officially professional” it’s a valid workflow. I’d recommend that you be more open-minded to new, creative workflows that break away from tradition - you might be pleasantly surprised by how you can adapt the software beyond it’s core purposes 🙂

[angie_taylor]

And, forgot to add, although using the proxy feature, it’s not really proxy-grade footage. It’s full-res, uncompressed render. So absolutely fine to use  color correction. The point is it will speed up your workflow a lot to do it this way but the comp is still “connected” so that last minute client changes can be done as they are sitting by you. I’ll try to create a little tutorial to explain more as it’s hard to show you what I mean by typing 🙂

[angie_taylor]

Hi there,

I've done a short, very rough tutorial to show you how I use the Proxy feature in After Effects as a switch to turn on full resolution, rendered sections of my composition. Very handy when working with clients or just to render out finished sections. I hope this helps.

By the way, make sure to use a lossless codec, or uncompressed in the Output Module and Best Quality in the Render Settings 🙂

[Full of Eyes]

Thanks for this tutorial, Angie! Very helpful to understand this feature and its various—including the more unconventional—uses. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

[angie_taylor]

A pleasure 🙂