Still problems with glitches when working under layers in ‘colour’ ‘multiply’ etc mode

[HubertusausBerlin]

Dear Community.

Since the update to PSD 24.xx, I have been struggling with glitches that occur when working under layers that are set to ‘Colour’, ‘Multiply’ etc. mode.

This problem can be reproduced (see video with example layer in ‘Colour’ mode). It can also suddenly disappear, but will certainly reappear.

Since I have now even changed the operating system (previously I had the problem with different MacOS computers and systems) and the problem still persists, I assume that it is a fundamental bug of Photoshop and that it has nothing to do with my computer constellation. Hence this new post.

What has already been checked and undertaken since mid-2023, unfortunately unsuccessfully, with the help of @CoryShubert and others, see posts:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/glitches-beim-zeichnen-oder-verschieb...

and

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/artifacts-when-drawing-in-folders-und...


A limited workaround thankfully came from @Doppeljochen :

If you switch the file to 16 bit mode, the error does not occur.

However, there are other processing limitations in 16-bit mode, so this can only be a temporary solution.

I think the problem has already been reported to Adobe. I cannot say whether it has been considered and dealt with. However, it would be great if someone would take care of the problem and solve it.

After all, the layer modes are a great and essential invention and peculiarity of Photoshop with which I have always been able to work flawlessly for many years - especially under these modes. Surely this should be possible again in the future without errors?

What do you think about? Greetings, Hubertus

System and program version information:

Photoshop 2024 Version 25.7

Windows 11 pro (23H2)

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz

128 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM (TUF-RTX4090-OG)

Studio Treiber 552.22 (5/24)

[HubertusausBerlin]

Further update on the topic (PSD now version 25.9):

I have noticed that the glitches not only do not occur in 16 bit mode, but also not in CMYK mode.
Or to put it the other way round: the glitches occur definitively in RGB, 8 bit mode.

Perhaps someone else can reproduce the problem? Or if an Adobe expert could say something about it, that would of course also be great!

Thx, Hubertus

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Does turning off »Use Graphics Processor« in the Performance Preferences (Photoshop > Preferences > Performance > Graphic Processor Settings) and restarting Photoshop have any bearing on the issue? 

[HubertusausBerlin]

Hello @c.pfaffenbichler - Thanks for your answer!

I've just tested it: as soon as I switch off GPU support, the glitches disappear.

But to be honest, I'm not surprised either. After all, it seems to be a general problem between GPU support and working under the conditions described.

After all, it now occurs not only on 3 machines with different GPUs, but also on Mac and now also on Windows and can be reliably reproduced (...sometimes it just depends on the order in which objects and layers are placed under the colour or multiplication layers - but it always appears reliable).

Unfortunately, working without the GPU is not an option. 😞

[c.pfaffenbichler]

And it is no proper solution anyway but it indicates problems with the GPU driver. 

Have you tried other GPU Advanced Settings? (Make sure to restart Photoshop for the changes to take effect.) 

[HubertusausBerlin]

Perhaps. But it is remarkable, as I said, that the same problem also occurs with other drivers from other cards and on different systems.

2023

Adobe Photoshop version: 24.6 (and earlier 24.XX)

Mac OS Big Sur 11.7.8
MacBook Pro, Retina, 15", mid 2014, NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB)

Mac OS Ventura 13.2.1

iMac Retina 5K 2019 (Radeon Pro 580X 8GB / 64 GB DDR4)

2024

Adobe Photoshop version: 25.8 + 25.9

Windows 11 Pro

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz 128 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM

I have always installed the latest and also various drivers. So it's probably unlikely to be due to a specific driver or a faulty driver installation.

All sorts of things have been tested over the time (this is already the third follow-up thread - see links above).

But if you have the time and inclination (if not, no problem!) - I would be pleased if you would test whether the problem also occurs at your computer.

Greetings, Hubertus

[HubertusausBerlin]

Test file to the glitches - if anyone would like to test it.

I would be happy to receive feedback.

To test, switch the upper colour layer on and off and move something on the layers below or paint with the brush (as in the video).

Also please test how everything behaves as soon as you switch the mode from 8Bit to 16Bit.

THX a lot!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9jwyrw9gbl1m1n60b7u27/photoshop-glitches-show.psd?rlkey=ovlqxai57j04s...

[c.pfaffenbichler]

No display glitches here (Adobe Photoshop Version: 25.9.0 on Mac OS 14.5.0). 

[Ged_Traynor]

@HubertusausBerlin just tested on my system and cannot replicate the issue, Photoshop version 25.9 on Windows 11 with an RTX 3090, latest Nvidia Studio driver installed

[HubertusausBerlin]

@c.pfaffenbichler + @Ged_Traynor thank you very much for your tests!

That's super strange!

I just tested the same file again on my Mac. (now also Mac OS 14.5.0) - exactly the same glitches. A completely different graphics card: Radeon Pro 580X - so also a completely different driver.

For my RTX 4090 on Windows 11 pro I have also just installed the latest Studio driver Studio driver 555.99 (6/4/24). No change. Same glitches.

The only connection between the two systems could be that I use the same Wacom tablet on both computers. But I removed the tablet and the tablet driver from the Mac and the effect remained the same.

What could this be? What is different for you than for me?

So far there has been at least one user (@Doppeljochen) who had the same effect and also gave me the tip for changing the mode. So at least I'm not the only one experiencing the problem...

[HubertusausBerlin]

PS: @c.pfaffenbichler

But you didn't move the elements or paint WHILE the upper layer in mode color is activated - or did I see that wrong in your video?

Because that's exactly the point. Not the movement or working on the layers in general...

Would it be possible you check that again?

Thank you very much!

[rayek.elfin]

Tested this on my comp (Windows 10, 3080ti latest studio driver, 128GB, AMD 7900x), and I experienced no issues.

Also tried to force the issue by switching to the older GPU acceleration, but aside from my GPU blowing like a hairdryer, again no glitching.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

PS: @c.pfaffenbichler

But you didn't move the elements or paint WHILE the upper layer in mode color is activated - or did I see that wrong in your video?

But you said: 

»To test, switch the upper colour layer on and off and move something on the layers below or paint with the brush (as in the video).«

Anyway, I tried again and there seems to be no problem. 

[Ged_Traynor]

@HubertusausBerlin I just tested again using my Wacom Intuos tablet and still cannot replicate the issue, I'll check again on Monday on my work PC and post back

[HubertusausBerlin]

@c.pfaffenbichler, @Ged_Traynor and @rayek.elfin

Thanks again for your tests and feedback!!!

So it remains absolutely crazy. As soon as I activate the colour layer, I have these glitches on both my Mac and my PC.

What could be the reason?

I have one last request.

I have just removed all font layers from the document because I realised that you had not loaded the fonts. And lo and behold, the glitches don't appear for me either. No matter whether I move the smart objects or draw something with the pen (all with the colour layer activated) - no glitches.

Since you obviously haven't loaded the fonts, may I ask you to load some fonts from your system and check whether the glitches still don't appear?

It is not very likely - but maybe it is due to a problematic interaction with loaded fonts?

Kind regards, Hubertus

[Ged_Traynor]

@HubertusausBerlin just tested on my work PC and still no issue, I also replaced the fonts with Myriad fonts and again no issue

[HubertusausBerlin]

Hey @Ged_Traynor

Thanks a lot again for your efforts!

Darn - now I really can't think of anything else where I could start and how I could fix the problem... 😞

Perhaps someone still has an idea? Or a similar problem - and was able to fix it?

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Have you tried »fiddling with« the Preferences > Performance > Advanced Settings (and restarting Photoshop to make them take effect)? 

Not very likely to help, but who knows? 

[HubertusausBerlin]

@c.pfaffenbichler ... Yes - I've already tried everything. And if I deactivate in the GPU-settings >GPU - Compositing< , there are no glitches.

Which somehow makes sense - after all, this relates how Photoshop creates an image from all the different layers. I have also read in the meantime that Photoshop 2021 with this has made a new technological leap - with known, initial problems with GPU support.

But somehow I can't accept that. Why do I have an extra fast and good graphics card?

The information I can call up in Photoshop menue under Help is:

Successful: OpenGL available
Successful: DirectX available
Successful: DirectX function level 12.2 available, function level 12.0 required
Successful: Above the required VRAM (24142 MB of 1500 MB required)
GPU recognised: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 (NVIDIA)

And at the bottom bar left under >GPU Mode< is displayed:

D3D12 = "This is the preferred mode for Windows and means you can take full advantage of the most modern GPU APIs on this platform."

So it can't really be the card's fault (with the latest driver). Especially as the illogicality remains as to why the same problems occur on my other system with the other cards....

Absolute mystery...

Who knows what to do?

[HubertusausBerlin]

Hello Moderators.

I have had a Photoshop problem with glitches for long time. Since I am now sure that it is a bug, I would like to move the post from Discussions to Bugs. Perhaps it will be better recognised there.

As I am not a moderator, I am unfortunately unable to do this. Could a moderator please do that for me? Would be very grateful!

Greetings from Berlin, Hubertus

This is the post in discussions:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/still-problems-with-glitches-when-wor...

[HubertusausBerlin]

Update

Hello Communitiy, Experts. (... and @Ged_Traynor, @c.pfaffenbichler, @Doppeljochen ...)

Since the glitches problem seems to be related to fonts (... I use the same fonts on both PC and Mac ...), I uninstalled all non-system fonts on my Windows machine.

After that didn't work, I also uninstalled all the fonts I had activated in the Creative Cloud - that didn't work either.

I have also deleted all preferences again.

The glitches are still appearing:

And still under Windows 11 Pro (PSD version 25.9.1) - as well as under Mac OS (PSD version 25.9.1 + 24. 7.4).

Incidentally, the glitches occur in several modes of the upper layer. In addition to the "Colour" mode (example video), it's also under layers in the modes "Multiply", "Negative multiply" and "Overlay" modes.

If the document is converted to 16-bit mode or CMYK, the glitches no longer occur on all systems.

Since the glitches occur when the fonts are deleted from the document (or when they are not loaded because they are not installed), I tend to see a cause in connection with fonts or font management.

But what could be the cause and how can it be switched off?

Does anyone else have an idea?

Greetings, Hubertus

[kevin stohlmeyer]

I'd suggest perhaps checking the AMD Adreneline tools to make sure your card is set to Studio and not Gaming Mode specifically for Photoshop. I've seen other users having GPU issues and it has to do with either BIOS or presets via GPU tools.

There are a lot of anomolies with all these tests.

The simple fact that if you disable GPU it resolves points to an issue with the graphics card itself. But you mentioned in one of your posts that you are seeing this on both Mac and Windows - is this with the same file?

A GPU issue would be a simple answer and explain why others cannot replicate - I am on a Mac (M1 laptop) and don't see any glitches with your file.

Do you customize your preferences at all? I don't see any mention of trying to reset your preferences to see if it resolves.

[kevin stohlmeyer]

Long shot - what if you change your workspace to be tabs instead of floating windows?

[HubertusausBerlin]

Hello @kevin stohlmeyer

Thanks a lot for your reply!

About the Studio driver: Yes - the current Studio driver for the card is running. And all settings are also optimised (... and various setting variants have also been tried many times in the meantime).

In addition - as described above in the thread - both with the same file and with different files with a similar structure (layers below a layer in colour mode, multiply etc) - exactly the same problems occur on 3 different machines (2 x Mac OS, now new Windows 11 Pro) - with different graphics cards and also different Photoshop versions (from 24.XX - 25.9.1).

You can imagine that something is not optimally set on one card, but on three different ones, one of which has just been put into operation with the new Windows computer?

Incidentally, the hope of getting rid of the glitches was one of the reasons for buying the new computer with a more powerful graphics card (and a new system). It's a real surprise that they're still there. 😳 Really crazy.

That's why I'm now looking for what's link between everything - and suspect that it might have something to do with the handling of fonts in general in photoshop?

I have reset all settings x times. I have also reinstalled Photoshop several times on all systems. The problem is always there again.

My plan at the moment is to completely reinstall Windows and then just install Photoshop and test the test file in the new state.

I have just tried the workspace alternative with tabs (standard workspaces), but no luck. Same Glitches. But it woudn't really fun either, after all I have extra a second monitor for all my tools.

Greetings, Hubertus

[HubertusausBerlin]

Hello Community, Experts. (... + @kevin stohlmeyer , @Ged_Traynor , @c.pfaffenbichler , @Doppeljochen ...)

I have now completely reinstalled my system, updated all drivers to the latest version (chipset, board, graphics card etc, even the Bios/UEFI) - and installed nothing but the Creativ Cloud and Photoshop.

I started Photoshop with the default settings (no old presets) and created a new document. RGB, white surface. In one layer a text (in Myriad Pro). As soon as I create a layer above it in "Colour" mode, the familiar glitch defect appears immediately. If I convert the document to CMYK or 16-bit mode, it disappears again (as usual).

In view of the previous history and still the error on various systems (MacOS and Windows) - I am now convinced that it is a Photoshop error.

Since it is apparently only reproducible for a few users, it seems to have to do with certain hardware and software constellations.

Here once again my constellations (current):

PSD now version 25.9.1
(But also already in version: 24.6 and earlier 24.XX)

1

Windows 11 pro (23H2)

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz 64 GB RAM DDR 5

(NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM)

Studio driver 555.99

2

Mac OS Sonoma 14.5

iMac Retina 5K 2019 (AMD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB / 64 GB DDR4)

3

Mac OS Big Sur 11.7.8 (Photoshop 2023, 24.7.0)

MacBook Pro, Retina, 15", mid-2014 (NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB / 16 GB DDR3)

It would probably be best if programmers could have a look. Or what do you think?

In any case, I can't think of anything else that I could change or test.... 😞

Maybe other users have the same problems?

Best regards, Hubertus