P: Frame substitution attempt aborting error - .MXF Files Fixed in version 25

[Anthony LV]

UPDATE 10-14-24:  

MXF file frame substitution errors has been fixed in version 25 of Premiere Pro 

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I've seen a number of posts about this, and am now running into the problem myself. Although there are a few differences I'd like to share that I'm hoping may shed more light on what appears to be a longstanding issue.

Specs: M3 Max Macbook Pro (64GB RAM), Sonoma 14.3.1, Premiere Pro 24.1.0

The .MXF files were shot XAVC-I from the Sony FX6 shot on a V90 card. I copied the entire memory card structure to my internal drive, and imported the clips using the media browser. The clips are 59.94 fps and 23.976 fps on a 23.976 timeline.

As I perform regular editing tasks (slowing 59.94 clips to 40%, adding clips to timeline, scrolling through), I get these error messages.

BUT, here's the kicker: I'm not actually seeing dropped frames yet. For one of the clips I received the error on, I decided to go to the source window and scroll through frame by frame. I didn't see any black frames, but scrolling through did create 9 new error messages at different frames.

Aside from the error popups being annoying, this is a project that many people are depending on. If these dropped frames actually do end up showing, I'll be in a bad spot. It seems as though with every new project, I have to factor in at least a day to deal with errors or bugs in Premiere. I shouldn't have to be constantly fighting with the tools that allow me to do my job. Moreover, the C70 and FX6 both shoot in .MXF and are fixtures of video production. Frankly, I'm taken aback that there hasn't been more meaningful support from Adobe on this.

I'm currently creating ProRes Proxies to see if that may solve the issue, but I'm concerned that this will only solve the problem in editing, and the error (dropped frames) may show up once exported.

Does anyone have thoughts on why this may be happening? Is it time to switch to Resolve like everyone seems to be saying, or could this be a workflow issue on my end?

Many thanks!

[Edit23]

Just a taste of my regular editing with Premiere with this issue.  I've been editing about 45 minutes with upward of 40 errors.  I'm working in 24.2.1 because the update is even worse.
On a related note, I'm editing my first commercial on Davinci Resolve with the same files.  No issues, no errors, no lag.
I do miss a few things about Premiere, but the speed and lack of errors more than make up for it.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Edit23 - Can you give some more info on your setup, cpu, Premiere version, hard drive setup.  It would be great if you could right click on one of your clips and choose "media file properties" and then post a screenshot?  Are you using an external monitor, if so can you try unplugging it and see if that helps you?  When updating versions it's always helpful to hold down shift and select the checkbox to "clear media cache", "reset plugin cache".  One more thing can you check the folder that your footage is in and make sure it is set to read/write, just to rule out permissions issue.

[Никита5E27]

I had Red giant Magic bullet 2021 installed and a couple of other unused plugins from the same year, I deleted, installed new ones and everything seems to be working well so far, nothing crashes right away)
P.S as soon as I work with a large amount of data in this Kodak format, I will write immediately as works for the premiere. In the meantime, thanks for the help)

[Никита5E27]

The program crashes even with plug-ins completely disabled and the cache cleared, an error appeared - Error retrieving frame 142 at time 07;59;12;14 from the file (there is the file path and at the end) clip0001.MXF, substituting frame 141. How to solve it?

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Никита5E27 - I'm sorry you are still experiencing this issue.  When the crash dialog box opens, please select the checkbox "Adobe may contact me" and then enter your email address. We can then look it up in our system and help diagnose what is happening. Please email me the email address you used jamiec@adobe.com 

[Никита5E27]

Понял, хорошо, спасибо вам

[Никита5E27]

And what if my premiere closes without this window immediately?, as if it crashes

[Никита5E27]

At first, this error appears in the Event with the frame of the frame, and after a while premiere just crashes without an error, just closing without saving and other things

[Никита5E27]

What if my premiere closes immediately without this window?, I can't even send an error message...

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi @Chrisanthi Pel, 

See if the Beta version solves your issue. Sorry for the frustration.

Thanks,
Kevin

[ghuff]

I spent hours with Adobe support on remote desktop with no solution. They advised me to transcode with handbrake, I tested it and yes, it works, but I can only choose one audio track out of my 4 and there will be a quality loss and another huge data pile. 

There should be an all-points bulletin sent out to Adobe tech support staff to never ever EVER maket this recomendation, especially if they are not going to be savvy enough to tell the difference between MP4 files shot on some hybrid stills/video camera and the XF-AVC format from a professional cinema camera.

EditReady or even the free version of DaVinci Resolve would be better options for transcoding this footage, and it should only be into ProRes, otherwise you're starting to incur generation loss.

Just terrible advice to re-encode via Handbrake, and is very naively "prosumer" coming from Adobe.

[R Neil Haugen]

A couple observations.

First, it's a total pain that the MXF files don't all work with Premiere, and they have to get that sorted. Period.

Second ... as to using Handbrake, that's a front-end for ffmpeg, and is able to provide all the quality anyone needs within the codecs it writes to. If you set the compression to "placebo" and pump up the levels and encoding 'base', you get basically All-I out of it. Or close enough that 2-3 generations won't kill you unless you're doing CGI plates, really.

So it's in the settings chosen that determines the image Q out of Handbrake. Not that Handbrake is an inferior or "prosumer" option.

Personally I would have recommended ShutterEncoder as that can transcode to either DNx or ProRes codecs also. This is also a front-end for ffmpeg.

[ghuff]

Just because ffmpeg is capable of delivering professional results does not mean that Handbrake, with its subset of options, is. As evidenced by the point made about being incapable of dealing with mutlichannel audio tracks within the MXF container.

But if your primary experience with video footage consists of H.264/5 MP4 files with a single stereo track, I can see why this wouldn't enter one's mind as a concern.

[R Neil Haugen]

As I noted, ShutterEncoder has both ProRes and DNx ... all variants of those ... as well as a ton of other codecs of varying types. But again, you the user set the quality of the output of either one.

I've seen multiple generation tests of Handbrake outputs that are quite good through 3-4 generations. Using an overlay set to Difference.

You can also produce a file that breaks the second generation.

[ghuff]

Yes, as you already stated before. I can send you samples if you need to have experience with using Handbrake to keep free run timecode intact along with four tracks of LPCM mono channels. 

[R Neil Haugen]

That's something you are quite correct on, that's past Handbrake. And ShutterEncoder handles multichannel audio better, at least for some things.

Some of the colorists I know do a fair amount of "finishing" work, and they've got one or two other apps that are good for specific professional needs. You gotta know the tools ... 

[chrislognion]

I know we need to have a quick workaround occasionally but this issue has been happening for months now and it needs to be addressed and fixed by Adobe. I've been a customer since the beginning... yes.. that long.  I've never seen Adobe ignore a serious issue like this one.   I too had a long tech support call... they gave me the handbrake advice.  I never thought that I would begin thinking of using another editing platform but this is taking too long.  All of our cameras are Canon C series.  We have switched to ALL-I and those files are editing fine but we have tons of in-house stock in Long-GOP that's almost impossible to edit fluidly. 

[R Neil Haugen]

And that's a freaking pain. Yea.

[CaliPVP]

Interesting... holding down shift when opening Premiere did the trick for me.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @wildbill - We just released an update in beta that is a potential fix for these frame recursion errors.  Can you try downloading 25.0.0 build 29 or later and see if that helps your issue?  Version 25 is part of our next major release so it is not backwards compatible to 24, but it would be good to know if this version helps your issue.  Thank You!

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Anthony LV  @rranney  @telecam2 @Christiaan1 @juhaniv94094739 @Juerg5CF2 and anyone else experiencing frame recursion errors. - 

We just released an update in beta that is a potential fix for these frame recursion errors.  Can you try downloading 25.0.0 build 29 or later and see if that helps your issue?   

Version 25 is part of our next major release so it is not backwards compatible to 24, but it would be good to know if this version helps your issue.  

You can find Premiere Pro version 25 beta in the creative cloud desktop app in the sidebar under beta apps.  Thank You!

[jamieclarke]

Hi @gian.delgadoaspiazu - 

We just released an update in beta that is a potential fix for these frame recursion errors.  Can you try downloading 25.0.0 build 29 and see if that helps your issue?   

Version 25 is part of our next major release so it is not backwards compatible to 24, but it would be good to know if this version helps your issue.  

You can find Premiere Pro version 25 beta in the creative cloud desktop app in the sidebar under beta apps.  Thank You!

[R Neil Haugen]

That's in the Public Beta, which you can install alongside the 'shipping' versions at all times. Now that the beta is 25.x, as noted, you can't open a project in that and then the shipping.

So create a new project and test your media there. They've got amazing new color managment tools also, including the ability to set a wide gamut timeline with a different monitor gamut and output gamut. Just wow.

[ghuff]

What makes the Beta version 25 different from Premiere 24.4 update you mentioned? Or the Beta version 24.6?

[jamieclarke]

Hi @ghuff - version 24.6 is the next stable release after 24.5.  The next beta that we currently have running is the next major release version 25