Timeline Performance Issues / Stalling in 25.2.1

[FlyingFourFun]

I have been having issues with the timeline in PP, in version 25.2.1,  I have rendered proxy files for some h265 iPhone SDR footage.   the clips will plat for about 2 min or so, and then the program monitor starts to stutter and within a few seconds of that it stops playing completely.

I have been monitoring the Taskmanager, and when this happens the GPU resources got o zero.  There is no crash,  a wait a couple of seconds, hit play, and it will play the video fine again for another 2 min.

This happens with the proxy turned either on or off (its watermarked also).  This GPU utlization screen shot shows exactly the where the program monitor stops responding and freezes the video frame, this one is playing the H265 Iphone footage.

The drop off you see in the resource monitor on the GPU is exactly where the program monitor stops updating, and freezes on one of the video frames. (this is with Proxy ON)

All the drives as Samsung NVMe.

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10980XE CPU @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
Installed RAM 128 GB (128 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Operating system, is separate from all the adobe products and video files,  they are all loaded from local NVMe, NOT loading off a NAS.

This system has NEVER had an issues playing back proxy files, or any other video file I have ever used, and this is 100% new behavior with my first project after upgrading to 25.2.1

I have been letting it run when the video starts to stutter, and the utilization graph below shows whats been happening.  The Audio continues to play perfect, but the video stutters, and freezes, then starts up again,  just liek this utilization graph for the GPU shows

I have done the basics, like cache clearing etc.

Any thoughts or others experience this?

[Dani_V.]

Hi @FlyingFourFun,

Thanks for submitting your bug report. We need a few more details to try to help with the issue. Please see, How do I write a bug report?

What kind of proxies are you working with and what frame rate is your footage? Right-click on the Program monitor and check if "High Quality Playback" is selected, and deselect it if it is.

Do you have hardware acceleration enabled under Preferences > Media, and have you tried disabling it to see if you notice a difference?

Do you have any effects in use or third-party plugins installed and have you noticed this with any other kind of footage?

Sorry for the frustration, hope we can help you soon.
Dani

[FlyingFourFun]

@Dani_V.  thanks for the response.  The source video as per media info is as follows:

General
Complete name : H:\Xmas 2024\20241225_170449000_iOS.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 0000.00 (qt )
File size : 1.11 GiB
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 59.9 Mb/s
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Recorded date : 2024-12-25T10:04:49-0700
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Writing operating system : Apple iOS 18.2
Writing hardware : Apple iPhone 16 Pro
com.apple.quicktime.location.accuracy.ho : 15.006167
com.apple.quicktime.full-frame-rate-play : 1
com.apple.quicktime.location.ISO6709 : +50.8434-113.9995+1047.986/

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main@L5.1@High
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate : 59.6 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 59.940 (59940/1000) FPS
Minimum frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Maximum frame rate : 66.667 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.120
Stream size : 1.11 GiB (99%)
Title : Core Media Video
Writing library : HEVC
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Metas : 3,4,5
Codec configuration box : hvcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Source duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 68.8 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel layout : M
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.31 MiB (0%)
Source stream size : 1.31 MiB (0%)
Title : Core Media Audio
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC

Other #1
ID : 3
Type : meta
Format : mebx
Codec ID : mebx
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Title : Core Media Metadata
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC

Other #2
ID : 4
Type : meta
Format : mebx
Codec ID : mebx
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Source duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Stream size : 1.06 MiB
Source stream size : 1.06 MiB
Title : Core Media Metadata
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC

Other #3
ID : 5
Type : meta
Format : mebx
Codec ID : mebx
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Title : Core Media Metadata
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC

Other #4
ID : 6
Type : meta
Format : mebx
Codec ID : mebx
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Title : Core Media Metadata
Encoded date : 2024-12-25 17:04:49 UTC
Tagged date : 2024-12-25 17:07:29 UTC

The Proxy format:

General
Complete name : H:\Xmas 2024\Proxies\20241225_170449000_iOS_Proxy.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 6.58 GiB
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 354 Mb/s
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-08 22:36:32 UTC
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 60000
TSZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 Proxy
Codec ID : apco
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 354 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.711
Stream size : 6.56 GiB (100%)
Writing library : adb0
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 705.6 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel layout : M
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 13.4 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 2 min 39 s
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code of last frame : 00:02:39:17
Time code, stripped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-08 22:34:23 UTC

I dont have any formats to try - I pretty much only have H265/H265 videos to work with.  The issue described curren happens if playing from the Proxy or the source.  It happens with and without the "high quality playback" set.  It happens with "full" all the way down to "1/8" res playback.

I have used this exact workflow, with video recorded with this exact iPhone many times without issue until 25.2.1 update (I never had a chance to try 25.2.0).

Hardware acceleration is on;

I have turned off and tested the HW acceleration.  I ran it with the proxy file first, it takes about twice as long before the video freezes frames.  However,  if I turn off the proxy, and use the source file,  it so far plays for at least 10x longer and still no symptons of frame feezes.  There is a an occasion  imperfection in the playback but near flawless playback.  SSD utilization apepars to at 2% during playback.  CPU usage increases about 10% with HW acceleration off but hovers around 25% on this machine.

Oddly, turning it off has better visual perfomance - but I dont think this machine and GPU (RTX3090) should have to have this turned off.

[FlyingFourFun]

adding another data point.  I took the source files, and ran them through Media Encoder to create full ProRes files (422HQ):

General
Complete name : H:\Xmas 2024\RE PROCSSED\20241225_162944000_iOS_1.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 11.1 GiB
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 639 Mb/s
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 22:14:30 UTC
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 60000
TSZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 HQ
Codec ID : apch
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 637 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.293
Stream size : 11.1 GiB (100%)
Writing library : adb0
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 10.7 MiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code of last frame : 00:00:58:07
Time code, stripped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 22:13:37 UTC

This file plays perfect/smooth in the timeline,  CPU usage climbs to 60%, but at full res it plays perfect!

I have then went back to create proxy's for the Prores 422HQ files, and played them back (here is the file details):

General
Complete name : H:\Xmas 2024\RE PROCSSED\Proxies\20241225_162944000_iOS_1_Proxy.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 1.57 GiB
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 232 Mb/s
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 23:19:32 UTC
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 60000
TSZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 Proxy
Codec ID : apco
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 230 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.463
Stream size : 1.56 GiB (99%)
Writing library : adb0
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 10.7 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 58 s 191 ms
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code of last frame : 00:00:58:07
Time code, stripped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-09 23:18:15 UTC

The result was VERY interesting.   The proxy files generated from the new source ProRes files also work perfect, no playback performance issues.  Additionaly, I can play the timeline with no stutters or timeline freezing WHILE media encoder is still processing Proxy files in the background.  CPU usage is at 68% in this condition but everything runs perfectly fine with the prores proxy files generated from the prores files that media encoder created the the H265 files.

As a side note, when I tried to rewrap the source file, Media Encoder failed and said the file was not compatible.  When I manual selected the Prores version it worked.

Despite the file name beign different that the prev sampel I provided, these are all from the same project/source/encoding - I played the same section fo the project and jumped round to test, I was just beign lazy to find the exact media played in premier so tookt he first one in the list.  (all 33 clips used in the project show the same issue and act the same way).

[mayjain]

Hi @FlyingFourFun,

Sorry to hear you're experiencing this issue. Could you please share some of the problematic media or project files—this would help us recreate the scenario locally and provide more targeted suggestions.

Thanks,
Mayjain

[FlyingFourFun]

I an for sure share the files.  I made a sample file and project just now, and ran the tests again after upgrading the Nvidia Studio Driver to Version: 576.02 April 16 2025

How do I sahre the project files with you and source media?

I also used my phone to record the premier pro app showing the play back issues....

If you advise how to share it with you, I can can do that for you ASAP;

[mayjain]

Hi @FlyingFourFun ,

Thanks for helping us try to reproduce this issue.
You can use frame.io to share the files. You can sign in to https://frame.io/adobe-cc & upload the file.
Right-click > Share > Share for Review
Go to Settings & enable Allow downloads
Go back to the Sharing tab & copy/share the link to the file/folder.

Let us know if you run into any issues.

Thanks again!
Mayjain

[FlyingFourFun]

If I did it all correct, it should be available:

https://f.io/GLz4pbPQ

Let me knwo if you have issues retrieving it;

I uploaded the sample, the proxys that were created, project file, and the video / screen capture showing the issue when proxy is turned on.

Thanks

[FlyingFourFun]

Another data point for you,  I used a different video file, encododed at 30 fps;  it plays fine, and also plays fine when you create a Proxy file for it;  

here is the source file media info details (The Proxy File media info is pasted below this source file:

SOURCE:

General
Complete name : H:\Working on\Proxy Jitter Test Project\The Alien The Military.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (mp42/mp41)
File size : 33.6 GiB
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 52.7 Mb/s
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS
Encoded date : 2023-10-01 00:12:04 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-10-01 00:17:13 UTC
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 30000
TSZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main@L5.2@Main
Codec ID : hvc1
Codec ID/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate : 52.4 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.211
Stream size : 33.4 GiB (99%)
Writing library : HEVC Coding
Language : English
Encoded date : 2023-10-01 00:12:04 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-10-01 00:12:04 UTC
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Codec configuration box : hvcC

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : mp4a-40-2
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Source duration : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 317 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 518 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 207 MiB (1%)
Source stream size : 207 MiB (1%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2023-10-01 00:12:04 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-10-01 00:12:04 UTC

PROXY FILE CREATED BY PP 25.2.1

General
Complete name : H:\Working on\Proxy Jitter Test Project\Proxies\The Alien The Military_Proxy.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 59.5 GiB
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 93.3 Mb/s
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-19 00:10:38 UTC
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00:00:00:00
TSC : 30000
TSZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format : ProRes
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 Proxy
Codec ID : apco
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 91.7 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.369
Stream size : 58.5 GiB (98%)
Writing library : adb0
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1 003 MiB (2%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code of last frame : 01:31:10:15
Time code, stripped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC
Tagged date : 2025-04-18 23:28:36 UTC

[mayjain]

Hi @FlyingFourFun ,

Thanks for sharing your project and media files.

After testing on both the latest Premiere Pro 25.2.1 and the previous 25.1 version, I can confirm the behavior you reported — playback performance with ProRes 422 proxy files is not optimal.

The root cause appears to be that the NVIDIA RTX 3090 does not support hardware decoding for 422 media formats. You can verify hardware decoding support for specific media types from the following resources:

• Puget Systems – Premiere Pro Hardware Performance

• NVIDIA Video Encode & Decode GPU Support Matrix

Since there is no hardware decode support for 422 proxies on this GPU, decoding falls back to software (CPU), which results in the jittery playback you’re experiencing.
That said, some of the latest high-performance CPUs can handle software decoding more efficiently and may deliver smoother playback, even without hardware acceleration.

I’ve also compared 422 proxy playback in both 25.1 and 25.2.1, and found no performance degradation between the two. Both versions rely on the same decoding path due to this hardware limitation.

If you switch to 420 proxies (e.g., H.264 MP4), which are supported by GPU hardware decoding, you should see significantly better playback performance, even with proxies enabled.

Hope this helps! Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,
Mayjain

[FlyingFourFun]

Thanks for the feedback;

I fidn this odd as it was working just fine in prev versions.  I am trying to avoid the use of H264 / high compression while editing so that I can play the files back at 2x and higher when doing a quick quick.  In the past, I have been able to play the proxy files without issue.  Somethign has changed, and maybe its been prior to version 25.1 even in terms of hoe these proxys are handled.

Do you hve any better advice to allow me to create a proxy in 420 but also not compressed so I can play back snappy and at 2x speed when needed?

I am waiting ona  5090 GPU, and plan to upgrade anyways,  but its so hard to find one right now...  sounds liek the GOU upgradfe will for sure solve the issue that is good news at least.

Thanks

[FlyingFourFun]

@Dani_V.  I have been reflecting further on your points;  I am not 100% convinced what you said is in fact the issue, but I do agree your comments are factually correct about the encoder support on the 3090 also. for example I have  used 422 in my experiments (check the prev posts)

Format :ProRess
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 HQ

They play just fine,  I believe I made those proxiess with Media encoder settings vs prem pro settings if memory serves me correct.  While it might be 100% true that the GPU doesn't have HW support for 422 proxy format,  it has in fact been playing that format fine in the past, and even in this current version depending on exactly how one creates the proxy file itself.

Bottom line, I cant shake the feeling there is a major under the hood change on how your handling the proxy encoding (and swapping out the playing of the proxy)  in these latest versions,  and my gut says it has everything to do with what settings/parameters are being passed to media encoder to create the proxy and/or how prem pro handled the pointer to which file to play when proxy playback is enabled..

I created a new proxy using media encoders settings (See inspector below) and its a 422HQ proxy, and it plays perfectly fine when on the timeline NOT being used as a proxy, even at 3x speed, no jitters!    When I manually attach the file as a proxy, the same file that plays without issue on the timeline native, now plays jittery when its an attached proxy!   This doesn'tt make sense to me.   If it plays perfectly fine native on the time line, and the same file plays jittery when its an attached proxy - that feels like a problem with the way PP is handling proxy playback itself.

The Settings preset I used from Media Encoder (which was not available in the 'create proxy' dialog within premier is as follows:

The inspector for the proxy file created is as follows (The only thing I changed was the color space from 709 ->HLGG to preserve that, as the settings default assumes arec7099):

General
Complete name : H:\Working on\Proxy Jitter Test Project\Proxies\20250418_185838000iOSS_proxymovv
Format :MPEGG-4
Format profile :QuickTimee
Codecc ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 8.08GiBB
Duration : 41 s 550 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 1 671 Mb/s
Frame rate : 60.000 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC
Tagged date : 2025-04-21 23:05:32UTCC
Writing library : AppleQuickTimee
TIMM : 00:00:00:00
TSCC : 60000
TSZZ : 1001

Video
ID : 1
Format :ProRess
Format version : Version 0
Format profile : 422 HQ
Codecc ID :apchh
Duration : 41 s 550 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 1 670 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 60.000 FPS
Color space :YUVV
Chromasubsamplingg : 4:2:2
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.355
Stream size : 8.08GiBB (100%)
Writing library :adb00
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC
Tagged date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC
Color primaries :BTT.2020
Transfer characteristics :HLGG
Matrix coefficients :BTT.2020 non-constant

Audio
ID : 2
Format :PCMM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codecc ID :sowtt
Duration : 41 s 550 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536kbb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 7.61MiBB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC
Tagged date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format :QuickTimeeTCC
Duration : 41 s 550 ms
Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code of last frame : 00:00:41:27
Time code, stripped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC
Tagged date : 2025-04-21 23:04:44UTCC

QUESTION:

Why can the encoded files from media encoder in what I think is the same prores 3840x21600 HLG 60FPS work perfectly fine when played native from the timeline (inside the same project), but not when the file is attached as a proxy and proxy playback is enabled?

[mayjain]

Hi @FlyingFourFun ,

Thanks for sharing these details. Proxy playback performance can also depend on the type of media being imported. The same CPU may handle playback much more smoothly when working with lighter proxy files—such as those with lower frame rates or bitrates.

In my testing, I noticed significantly better performance when using QuickTime 422 proxies generated from lighter media compared to heavier source files. Feel free to experiment with this on your end and let us know how it goes.

I'll review your findings and report back.

Thanks,
Mayjain

[FlyingFourFun]

@Dani_V.  I understand completely what you are saying about different sources etc.... 

What I hope you are taking away from my postings is:

1) The same media file (exact same I uploaded for you to test with) WILL NOT play smooth when you create a proxy by right clicking, and "create proxy" in the prores format.

2) When I take the exact same file, and create a proxy using the settings of 422HQ from MEDIA ENCODER manually, with a color space of HLG also, those files when attached as a proxy to the media on the timeline ALSO do not play back smooth.

3) When I put the proxy file created manually from media encoder 422HQ HLG on the timeline, it will play smooth as butter on the timeline when there is no proxy, or playback proxy is disabled.

4) When I take the manually created Proxy file, and attach the same file to it as a proxy, and turn on proxy playback, then then it will play smooth with the proxy playback disabled, but as soon as I turn on proxy playback, the file plays back jittery.

Basically, the same file in 422HQ (literally the same file) playback differently/jittery on the same timeline, same project, same sequence, depending on if its played as a proxy file proper or just a clip on the sequence.

When playing back in proxy playback mode, the GPU starts to show utilization on the 3D metric, when the play back starts to jitter and freeze, ALL GPU activity stops dead.  If I restart playback, GPU activity resumes, until it starts to jitter exactly in the same manner.  

While I fully understand the nature and formatting of media can exhibit the same symptoms, what I am seeing is the exact same media presents differently based on being played back as "proxy" or native on the time line.  When when you attach the same proxy encoded media file to itself, it doesn't play back smooth when played in proxy playback mode.

It is because of this behavior that I feel it points to the pipeline being used to preload/retrieve, and playback proxy media is somehow different.  Maybe the playback engine is not exactly the same,  maybe its actually reading and decoding both the proxy and the native clip on the time line, but only presenting to the viewer the proxy (double up the work but only show the proxy workload) as example.  I'm not 100% sure exactly why it is broken, I can only present on the symptoms, and speculate on the why.

This is why this issue is disturbing to me.  it should not be like this.

[Dani_V.]

Thank you for being thorough and providing all this information @FlyingFourFun.

Something you could try—if you go to your clips in the Project window, right-click to Modify > Interpret Footage, does the 'Frame Rate from File' match the proxy frame rate? So for example, if MediaInfo says the source and proxy file is 60.000 fps, and the 'Frame Rate from File' is reading 59.9736, or a non-standard fps with a different decimal, select 'Assume this frame rate' and write in the 60.00 fps. Does this change your playback with proxies at all? We might be able to narrow down the problem this way.

[MyerPj]

First thing I was thinking of is the variable frame rate. Bummer on that. So, indeed, maybe that is affecting it. Also, wondering why you have ProRes HQ proxies. Since you have a watermark on them, you probably wont use them for rendering/exporting. So, can you / did you try ProRes proxy. HQ is producing 5ish times the bitrate of your actual files

Here on the forum, we are always warning people not to use h.264 proxies, so a recomendation for that came as a surprise, especially as it was simply for hardware decoding.

I'm just in the process of clean installing Window 24H2, I don't see any action on the igpu in any program. Running 4070 Nvidia currently with 12900K

[FlyingFourFun]

@MyerPj the proxy watermark is there for this test to make sure it was using the proxy file...  I use the ProRes HQ because I move tons of footage between things like Topaz etc, and it tends to keep the color shift etc very simular and easier correction.

I was very surpised to see the recomendation to use h.264 proxy - I was surpised to even see it in the list of options to be honest.

I was not having issues with the playback prior to this last upgrade,  3090 support for the codex aside,  what ever PP was doing was working, and playing back without issues.  I will be getting a 5090 as soon as its available,  but its impossible (I ony want a FE version, and in Canada only one place sells it, and it seems they are never available online or in store, but people are scalpign them for $2000 extra.  I'm not goign to play that extra for principle as I belive the scaricty / issue is the product is not making it to the shelf for normal people to buy before someone buys it to sell on ebay.

As for frame rate,  It might be lost in the wall of text in this thread but if I manual make the proxy with Media Encoder, and play it on the timeline the file plays fine on the time line.  Thats with the full 422HQ file!  If I attach it as a proxy, the file stops playing and gets jittery.  

So, to me, the system IS (and always was) capable of playign back a 422HQ file, without the 3090...  its only when its attached as a PROXY and proxy playback is enabled with litteral the same file that it gets jittery/stops playing back.

Second thign that I see is the GPU is modertly busy, but aftera  5 ish seconds, maybe a bit longer the GPU utilization drops to zero at the same time as the playback issues (which only present when in proxy playback mode) occur.

All the ways I have tested it, link back to proxy playback, the 3090 not decoding is a distraction as the file plays back perfectly fine when its not  playing in proxy mode enabled....

I belive, something has changed with how PP is manging proxy playback, or the latest windows 11 Pro for Workstation, or Nvidia Studio driver (Which has been more buggy recently) interactions have degarded playback in proxy mode - which doesnt even make sense because it should effect all playback of the same file in the same way...  which is why I come back to the software code to playback in proxy mode is degrading playback - and thats where there is a bug.

Hopefuly soon I find a 5090, and I can bypass this issue - but I suspect it will be 3 or 6 more months before stock is available, so I was hoping to get workable performance (like before) in the mean time.

[FlyingFourFun]

@Dani_V. 

So, I think you just figured it out.....   

I checked with Media Info, and it reports both the source and proxy files as 60 FPS;

When I look at the interprete footage it shows the source as 59.9736 as the frame rate from file;

I forced the footage to be interpreted at 60 FPS in PP, created new proxy files from that interpreted at 60 FPS footage  to match what Media Info reported as the FPS;

THIS NOW PLAYS BACK FLAWLESS.

I checked with Media Info and both the source and the proxy also report as 60 FPS;

Interprete footage remains forced to 60 FPS, to match what media info displays;

Now it plays back flawless!

I watched the GPU and CPU utilization, there is NO drop to zero percent utilization in any way, not even a hickup.

It seems that PP is detecting this footage at the 59.9xxx FPS, and if it created a proxy based on that FPS it doesn't play proper.  Idon'tt know what other media types or special conditions need to occur for this to present, but with the foot filed with the iphone 16 pro, it for sure presents in this way, and the override corrects it to work proper.

I hope you can make sense of where the bug might be, or duplicate it yourself now.

[MyerPj]

Cool, well done @FlyingFourFun and @Dani_V. 

[FlyingFourFun]

@MyerPj I think this is a solid lead - hopefully the engineering team can figure out its cause and correct it....  I was almost starting to think I was crazy for thinking it was working fine before.  @Dani_V.  recommendation was the turning point for finding the cause and a work around for now...  but what a strange thing to even have happened - seems like it would be easy to avoid a frame rate mismatch.

I hope they can duplicate and debug it, as I cant imagine this one file type and workflow is the only one negatively effect.

[Dani_V.]

Glad to hear this worked for you @FlyingFourFun and sorry for the frustration caused. The team has logged this bug and will add it to the Known Issues documentation.

[FlyingFourFun]

I have updated to Adobe Premier Pro 25.3, also reviewed the change log:

Premiere Pro feature summary (June 2025 release)

After retesting, my issue still persists, and the work around also still works and is required.  Any projection of when this might be addressed?

[FlyingFourFun]

a quick update. I decided to take the plug and use download the beta tonight and retest my project file I was using - and the Beta versions of premier and media ecoder, apperently dont have this bug anymore.  Timeline playback to be honest seems very improved even as I switch back and forth between beta and non beta...

So far, it seems the next release may actualy solve this without the work arounds - fingers crossed.