CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

This known bug in CS6 has been well documented regarding the potential symptoms, known issues and transcoding workarounds.

Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or media types in order to make informed decisions when purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

If there is a definitive list of specific camera manufacturers / models, and/or media types that are affected by this bug, I have not been able to find it.

Of course this bug has been resolved in the June 17th release of the Creative Cloud Subscription update. It remains to be seen if the fix will be back-ported to CS6.

Thanks.

Cameras confirmed as not exhibiting the bug:

Panasonic GH2

Sony HDR SR-12

Cameras confirmed that do have the bug:

Canon Vixia HF G10

[jamesp2]

Unfortunately, there another AVCHD bug which apparently hasn't been addressed:  very laggy AVCHD and AVC-I time-line performance, as reported in a number of other threads.

Spanned clips can at least be transcoded.  But nothing can be done with the lag problems, other than transcoding ALL footage.  OT this may be, but it's central to the editing of native AVCHD and AVC-I material, from the very same cameras.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

jamesp2,

I appreciate your comments.

However your response contains no specific information

regarding the known bug mentioned as the subject of this thread,

and may only serve to further cloud the issue at hand:

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able

to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or

media types in order to make informed decisions when

purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files

with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

[tfi_productions_44]

hello,

i use canon hfs20 avchd cameras

however, i still use 5.03 without any problems

however, i was going to try out PPROcs6 but it doesn't offer avchd in the trial i was told

i really appreciate jamesp2 chiming in with the 'other issue'...thanks

i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses...

i may stick with 5.03 as my last update

cheers, j

( i also don't want to be limited avchd cameras that work:  all cameras worked in 5.5

now is cs6 only some cameras work, and now in cc all cameras are back to working again...)

[joe_bloe_premiere]

tfi productions 44,

I appreciate your comments documenting your decision

to continue to use CS5.0.3 to avoid the known bug in CS6.

I keep CS5.0.3 installed alongside CS6 for this very reason.

However your response contains no specific information

regarding the question I have posed:

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able

to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or

media types in order to make informed decisions when

purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files

with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

If there is a definitive list of specific camera

manufacturers / models, and/or media types that are

affected by this bug, I have not been able to find it.

[Stan Jones]

now in cc all cameras are back to working again...)

Joe, I completely agree that this thread should stay on topic and deal with what cameras and media types are affected (and not) by the CS6 AVCHD spanned media bug. But I think the following comment is appropriate for the context.

I assume that the bug was not detected in Adobe quality control before the release of CS6 because the spanned clips they tested were from a camera/media type that is not affected. As someone else pointed out, they MUST have tested such clips. Edit: And I do not assume this is fixed in  CC until many, many users put their cameras to the test.

I was a user affected the PDX10/PD150 problem that Premiere CS3 captured audio incorrectly because Sony changed their system on a very few cameras that could record 4 audio channels, and Premiere used a shortcut to determine what channel to capture. Scenalyzer Live, however, actually looked at the streams (or some such method), and worked flawlessly. I suspect similar issues here. So identifying cameras/media types is very useful.

Since the bug is fixed in CC, I suspect that a more forthcoming Adobe could simply give us a) the list or b) the underlying problem that would help us - there are a lot of cameras out there. But since they haven't so far, I have to assume they will not do so now.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Since the bug is fixed in CC, I suspect that a more forthcoming Adobe could simply give us a) the list or b) the underlying problem that would help us - there are a lot of cameras out there.

I would settle for a) The List.

But since they haven't so far, I have to assume they will not do so now.

I guess we'll see.

[Kevin-Monahan]

joe bloe premiere wrote:

Since the bug is fixed in CC, I suspect that a more forthcoming Adobe could simply give us a) the list or b) the underlying problem that would help us - there are a lot of cameras out there.

I would settle for a) The List.

But since they haven't so far, I have to assume they will not do so now.

I guess we'll see.

Hey JBP,

I don't know of a specific list of cameras that exhibiit the issue. I can ask, though.

Thanks,

Kevin

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Thank you Kevin.

I will anxiously wait for additional pertinent information

to be added to this thread by you or another Adobe staffer.

[Kevin-Monahan]

tfi productions 44 wrote:

however, i was going to try out PPROcs6 but it doesn't offer avchd in the trial i was told

Hi tfi productions 44,

All codecs are available in trial versions of Premiere Pro since CS5.5. Check it out.

Thanks,

Kevin

[John T Smith]

>i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses

Canon Vixia HFS100 and PPro 5.0.3 and I have never had problems (I have PPro CS6 but am not using it due to the bug)

[Stan Jones]

John T Smith wrote:

>i think John T Smith uses a similar camera to mine but i've lost what version of PPRO he uses

Canon Vixia HFS100 and PPro 5.0.3 and I have never had problems (I have PPro CS6 but am not using it due to the bug)

Just to confirm John: you have never tested spanned clips from your camera with CS6, right?

[John T Smith]

I am not using PPro CS6 at all

[Guest]

Last year built four DVDs (each hour long instructor lead classes), from footage from Canon Vixia HF100 and HF200 cameras. Takes were normally 1.5+ hours -- heavily spanned. Started the first DVD edit in CS5, finished it in CS6, and did the other three completely in CS6. Imported the clips letting PPro CS6 Media Browswer figure out how to link the individual AVCHD files back into clips. No problems.

[jamesp2]

Joe Bloe,

Forgive me, but you're never going to get a reliable list of "safe" cameras.  Even assuming there's a camera which produces AVCHD spanned files which don't provoke the bug behavior, would you really stake a purchase or advise a client to shoot with camera x, because somebody here, who may not even know what a spanned clip is, says it works great?

And are you really going to buy a camera to accommodate the shortcomings of an old version of PPro?  Is anyone?

I jumped in because, for the life of me, I didn't understand why we're diverting attention from a big problem which isn't solved or even acknowledged, and which evidently affects all AVCHD and AVI-I footage, to a bug which Adobe has known of for a long time and at least claims to have solved. 

Anyway, the lag is a big deal for me now, so maybe I'm too preocuppied by it.  By that's my rationale.

[Kevin-Monahan]

jamesp2 wrote:

I jumped in because, for the life of me, I didn't understand why we're diverting attention from a big problem which isn't solved or even acknowledged...

Hi jamesp2,

Steve Hoeg, an engineer on the Premiere Pro team has asked for reproducible cases on an earlier thread, so it has at least been acknowledged: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208

It appears he needs more test cases with reproducible results. Feel free to file a bug report, if you have not already: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Thanks,
Kevin

[jamesp2]

Kevin,

Thanks, but unfortunately that thread (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208) also has two related but different bug reports, and it's not clear if both have registered with Adobe.

One is reported by Stu S, which he documented with a video.  The other was described by Eric of ADK (and me, again) and would appear to be related to Stu's report, but describes different t-l behavior.

I have indeed filed bug reports.  The fact that Eric sees the issue often, and with high horsepower, well-tuned systems, is I hope decisive.

[Kevin-Monahan]

jamesp2 wrote:

Kevin,

Thanks, but unfortunately that thread (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5337208#5337208) also has two related but different bug reports, and it's not clear if both have registered with Adobe.

One is reported by Stu S, which he documented with a video.  The other was described by Eric of ADK (and me, again) and would appear to be related to Stu's report, but describes different t-l behavior.

I have indeed filed bug reports.  The fact that Eric sees the issue often, and with high horsepower, well-tuned systems, is I hope decisive.

Hi james sp2,

Have you posted a separate thread I can point engineering to? I seem to recall something about that. If so, let me know and I'll ask them to have a look. If not, create a new thread.

Thanks for filing bug reports. I know that Eric has seen this issue, but we have to get a reproducible test case into the hands of the engineers. I'll try to help make that happen.

Thanks,

Kevin

[jamesp2]

Kevin,

I first reported the issue here (hardware forum):

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5160969#5160969

Since then, however, I've confirmed that it's a bug apparently unique to AVCHD and AVI-I footage, and it's worse than I initially described it--move rapidly through the time-line cut by cut, and PPro stops responding altogether, and will take several seconds to update when you come to a stop. 

Following up on Eric's observation (that he doesn't it see the lag with cineform), I transcodeed AVI-I to Avid DNxHD (keeping more or less the same data rate), and got instantaneous response on the time-line.  Also, the footage which causes lags in Premiere Pro doesn't do so in Edius.  This is a 3930K 32GB system.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

jamesp2,

Thanks for starting a new thread specific to your issue:

Lagging response of AVC-I and AVCHD Footage on Time-Line

[Guest]

- Panasonic HMC-150 and HMC-40

- Canon Vixia HF-G10

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Fuzzy Barsik wrote:

- Panasonic HMC-150 and HMC-40

- Canon Vixia HF-G10

Thanks, Fuzzy.

Am I correct to assume these are confirmed

as problematic cameras / media types in CS6?

[Guest]

I deliberately submitted the links to the posts, in which camera owners claimed they experienced the spanned clips bug.

Does that mean they are 'confirmed problematic cameras'? Well, it depends...

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Thanks Fuzz...

I think we have a tentative beginning of 'The List'.

[excited_Genie16B8]

I deliberately submitted the links to the posts, in which camera owners claimed they experienced the spanned clips bug.

I don't believe the Panasonic thread is a valid case.  The OP stated he has troubles with import and audio, neither of which are the effects of the spanning clips bug.  Likely, something else was going on for that poster.  Also, at the end of the thread Christian posted "I have no issues with "spanned" AVCHD clips in PPro CS5 or CS6. Have AF100, AC130, HMC150...have previously used the HMC40 and HMC70 also....never an issue. 100's of hours of footage of the last few years, many clips 30 minutes or longer."

I can also confirm no issues with GH2 media.

We did get a poster who claimed to have the issue with the Panasonic AC130 (I think), but I was never able to get my hands on that media for testing here.

Next week I'll be able to test spanned clips from the Panasonic HPX600, which shoots AVC-I to P2 cards.