In and out point sets out point 1 frame too far

[BRUSJAN AS]

When I set my in and out point in a zoomed out timeline with clips on only one track, the out point consistently gets set 1 frame in to the next clip, so I get 1 frame from the next clip in the end of the exported video.

[Ann Bens]

This is not a bug.

How do you set your in and outpoint.

If you set your playhead on the end of a clip, then set the outpoint (O) it will be placed on the first frame of the next clip.

Use the left arrow to set outpoint one frame back.

[Ann Bens]

[BRUSJAN AS]

Why on earth should you want it to function like that? Say I have multiple clips on my timeline that i need to export out one by one. Then i quickly set my in and out point by selecting I and O. Why would I want to select more than the actual clip?

[Ann Bens]

Use forward slash after selecting clips.

[R Neil Haugen]

NLE design 101 ... which can be awfully and confusingly obfuscated.

The CTI ... current time indicator, or playhead ... is ALWAYS attached to a frame, it's not a divider between frames. As technically, there are only frames on a video sequence, no 'between frame' exists.

So the CTI is always connected to the next (following) frame. You can even see this if you zoom in on your timeline enough ... a blue bar appears on the top of the CTI's right side, showing the frame it is attached to.

And yea, this is blasted confusing until you really understand and remember it.

The up/down arrow actions go to the previous or next clip ... see the problem there? Hit down arrow, hit O, you've set the out point at the end of that frame ... one frame past the clip you were expecting to end on.

There's also a keyboard short, go to last frame of current clip ... find it, use that one.

Neil

[NwProPr]

I've imprinted this in my mind as long as I can remember. It works the same for (some) other editing software as well.

My way:
1. Put the playhead somewhere behind the last clip in an open area

2. Arrow up (to make it stick to the end of the last clip)

3. Arrow left

4. Press O

I agree it can be confusing to people who don't know (especially when the client requires you to export without black frames at the front and end). However, it would make it extra confusing when programmers would change this workflow, since it's the norm.

[R Neil Haugen]

Yup ... that works.

There's also two keyboard shortcuts that you can set to a useful 'short' ... Go to Selected Clip-end, and Go to Sequence-Clip end.

Neil

[Ann Bens]

Lasso clip(s) then hit forward slash.

In and out with one keystroke and no extra frame on the end.

Edit: big typo

[Stan Jones]

Ann, once again you taught a fabulous shortcut. The forward slash to set in and out is amazing.

Stan

[Piotr5F85]

Yes, as people are saying - this sets the position of the out point on the next frame, but what Adobe doesn't know is that - IT IS HIGHLY NON INTUITIVE. And their priority when it comes to producing software is - lack of intuitiveness, so it works as expected - following their priorities. It is a stupid function of course, for a normal user and it shouldn't be there, because you always have to go back 1 frame. It's not how it's supposed to work, because you are framing a certain part of the video, it's supposed to end on the end of the clip, not add 1 extra frame. So annoying, but expected from Adobe.

[R Neil Haugen]

Your premise is this behavior is a stupid Adobe thing. I disagree with that premise. As in operation, all professional NLEs have exactly the same behavior. So therefore, according to your basic premise, Avid, Resolve, all stupid. Fascinating thought, that. All professional video/movie software is wrong and stupidly built.

Did you really mean to say all professional motion video designers up to today are ... stupid?

So ... I'll provide a bit of information for someone new to this, as I was at one point. Something I also once stumbled into, like I did a ton of other things.

And because I was a noob a few years back myself, I'm well aware this isn't "intuitive". 

As I'm also well aware, that in a complex, complicated high-level professional app, a lot of things won't be "intuitive" for those starting out. Lose the expectation of "intuitive" as a newer worker. Learn how things actually work in professional applications. (After you learn, it's a lot easier to have discussions on real "intuitive" processes in professional workflows, and there are some dolt things here no doubt.)

On a timeline/sequence, no matter what you call it, there are no spaces. Only frames. Period. That is the nature of motion video. It exists only as frames.

The playhead, or Current Time Indicator (CTI) shows the current location of the 'playhead', meaning which frame is playing. It does not, nor can it, indicate a space, as no such thing as a space exists.

So the position of the playhead always selects the next frame down the sequence. Always.

If you want it to select a space between frames, then ... you won't be able to use the playhead to select frames without additional commands as to which frames to select.

There are keyboard commands for things like going to the last frame of the current clip. Or of course, as with any complex professional app, a wee bit of learning. Like ... if you use the next clip or end of sequence command, meaning you've told the CTI  to go to and select X frame, then you need to auto-tap the back arrow key before performing whatever action you want. Or, if you're already on the last clip, use the go-to-last-frame command instead of go to next clip.

It really isn't that hard. No it isn't obvious at first. And like a few hundred other things in pro editing apps, it's something to simply learn and move on to learning the next twenty non-obvious things. So there is a steep learning curve.

And it was just as much a pain in the tushie for the more experienced person, when new, as it is for you now.

But get some learing and some experience, and well ... you'll join the Club. Where everyone does everything different from any other editor, but normally assumes everyone else does it like they do.

Which I find rather humorous, but so very, very human.

[Edward Phillip]

Yes, I get it there are no spaces in between. That means the CTI is at the exact point where one frame ends an the next begins. What everyone here complaining thought, was that the O function would then select the last frame, the one that we are seeing. It should select the end of the previous frame, exactly where the CTI is, not the end of the one that is about to begin. So everytime I have to export a file separately from others in the same sequence I have to remember to go back one frame before pressing O.

So, yes. In this case at least, I really mean to say all professional motion video designers up to today are stupid.

[R Neil Haugen]

The CTI has never, in any professional NLE, been a somewhat theoretical space ... it's always, only, connected to a frame. As video sequences only have frames. Even if there isn't video "there" yet, sequences are sequential image frames. Period.

Yea, that seems odd at first, but there are actually solid reasons for it, and not just 'historic' ones. But it does take a bit of getting used to. Like ... the need for "handles" for most transitions. Similar thing for those new, as of course I was once.

So I've been through the understanding and thinking you are "in" ... but that was before getting a deeper understanding of why this video post processing is what it is.

I also struggled with why pro video post was so different than pro stills work ... it's just images, right?

Well ... no, video images, and therefore the required processing, are several orders of magnitude more complex and demanding than working stills. That also took me awhile to fully understand.

Whether it's coming into video from stills, or even going from one NLE to another, an awful lot of the necessary process is leaving behind past concepts, and learning the appropriate ones for this NLE or process.

I work in both Premiere and Resolve. There's a ton of things in Resolve I wish were more like Premiere. But ... to work in Resolve, I need to work as Resolve is designed to work. And ... the CTI behavior is consistent between them, btw ...

[GiacomoBusetto]

Pretty sure this didn't happen until the last 2 updates so I also confirm: pretty damn silly to skip to the end of a sequence with the arrow button and then having to go back one frame to select the OUT point

[Ann Bens]

This behavior has been in Premiere for as long as I can remember.

Simple solution is to lasso the clips and use the Forward Slash.

[cyvideo]

When you think about it, there is NO such thing as an "OUT" point. All marked points are address points for the next frame. If you mark an IN point where you want your clip to start from, the following frame is included in the clip. If you mark an OUT point at the end of your clip, the following frame will be included in your clip. That's not what you want. It's the wrong address point. So, set the mark at the START of the LAST frame you want included in the edit or render.

A poor analogy. House street numbers. If I said go to house #6 you would go to house-frame number #6, as #6 is included in your instruction. If I said go to #7, that would be included in your instruction. But that is past the house you want, you want #6. So, only include the address of the house-frame you want, NOT the next one, as #7. Not #7 house-frame as that is not what you want included.

[Piotr5F85]

Listen dude I get what you're saying, but think about the practicality.
When using the IN point you want to include the next frame, when using the
OUT point you want to include the previous frame. Who cares how it works
already? You don't have to explain a system & justify a system that works
in a wrong way. Each time, instead of putting the playback at the end of
the marker hitting the out point & being done, you have to go one frame to
the back, a very unnecessary step. Always either takes the next frame or
leaves empty gaps with no video.

[Ann Bens]

As said before to avoid having to go back one frame use the forward slash.

Outpoint is set on the last frame.

[Piotr5F85]

That literally does nothing. If you mean the option Mark Out that literally
leaves one frame gap. Are you onto something? What shortcut are you talking
about?

[Ann Bens]

Select clip hit forward slash.

Try it and see where the outpoint is at.

[Piotr5F85]

I hit it & I'm telling you it does NOTHING
What do you have it assigned to?

[Stan Jones]

@Piotr5F85,

> If you mean the option Mark Out that literally leaves one frame gap.

Ann is referring to the "Mark Selection" command. Markers -> Mark Selection (forward slash).

If you click on/select a clip and use forward slash, it marks an in and out. The in is on the first frame of the clip, and the out point is on the last frame of the clip - which is what you want. A test for this is to look in the Program Monitor. You can use the Goto Out button and you will see the last frame and that the out point indicator shows. And if you press Down from there (Go to next edit point), the Out point indicator will not show and the next clip will show or a blank screen.

If you already have an out point that is one frame too far (as you describe), you may not be able to see it change.

Stan

[R Neil Haugen]

Takes understanding what the playhead function is, as this is tied to playhead movements.

The playhead/CTI is always "tied" to the following frame. As there isn't an "in-between" frames thing in an NLE. Only frames. Which isn't something most of us know to begin with.

So one possibility is to use the "correct" command, which is "go to the last frame of the current clip". You can set a keyboard shortcut for it also.

[cyvideo]

I hear you. But sorry... dude? It's been that way since SMPTE time code was invented. No NLE program is ever going to change that, as the NLE would no longer comply with the industry SMPTE standard for time code IN / OUT marks. If one NLE manufacturer did what you wished, it would no longer be possible to round trip between NLEs and grading packages.  As it would create a total hash of your code base, making it impossible to import / export timelines between different editing and grading systems. Millions of editors have been working like this since the early '70s, me included. You just have to live with it.