Premiere Pro V23.1 -3dB audio drop on export

[ThomasGaythorpe]

We're working with R128 compliant audio and have found that when adding media to a sequence, the audio is 3dB lower.

We work with video files containing multichannel audio to supply to our international clients. Therefore we configure a 22 channel output with the sequence channels routed 1 - 1, 2 - 2, 3 - 3 and so on. With premiere only offering stereo bus', we have to route each track to a stereo pair, for example, routing track 1 to output 1 & 2 and then pan to the left, therefore routing track 1 to output 1.

In the below example, I'm only including a stereo split to show the drop in volume.

Original media reference tone in player at -18dB

 

Original media in the sequence, reference tone at -21.2dB

Same reference tone exported and reimported playing at -24.2dB

 

[R Neil Haugen]

Premiere offers mono,  stereo, adaptive, and 5.1 audio track types. For many pro users the wiser choice for audio (especially when it will be sent out for additional audio work) is dual mono. I know @Jarle Leirpoll  suggests avoiding stereo for most pro workflows.

A straight -3dB change sounds like going from perhaps dual mono to stereo, something like that.

Neil

[ThomasGaythorpe]

Thanks Neil,

How would we implement this?

We currently configure our sequences as stated above and shown in the below screenshot;

 

When I add 22 mono channels, all channels in my sequence mix down to a single mono channel.

 

 

Many thanks,

Tom

[R Neil Haugen]

First, what is your Audio preferences set to for default tracks? I know in his massive tome on Premiere, Jarle suggests that mono is the better option for any AAF/OMF eventual workflows. And also that Avid & FCP users will probably want to setup stereo incoming as dual mono.

In the Project panel's Modify/Audio channels options, you can set this up many different ways. Including making presets for the things you will need to use for b-cast specs, as Jarle suggests.

For example, incoming stereo tracks can be set to mono (left), mono (right), each with only one resultant track. Or mono with two tracks, having a left and right separate mono track. Or as Stereo.

So I'd probably start there. And I hope Jarle pops in ... he's in Norway so his time is of course different, might be tomorrow US Pacific time before he pops in if he does.

There's also @Warren Heaton  or @Richard M Knight and  a couple others that are good at this ...

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

Is Loudness Normalization enabled in the Export Options?

That's the only thing off-hand that I can think of that would cause audio in an exported file to play at a lower dB than the Timeline it came from when reimported.

[ThomasGaythorpe]

Thanks both, no normalization is selected on export, I meant to ammend the title as the drop in volume is affected when the media is added to the sequence.
We do modify the audio channels of the project media. I find the issue is due to the channel mapping. It seems Premiere is limited to a single mono channel output when a mono output is selected, however when using multichannel, the outputs are still treated as stereo pairs, even when the tracks are set as mono.

Thanks once again,

Tom

[LluisV]

I've not tested this in premiere (I will do it) but it seems Premiere uses the pan law of -3dB for mono tracks. This is an old known limitation of analogic consoles that was replicated in digital domain, but in my opinion, absolutely obsolete.

I edit audio outside premiere (Nuendo). In Nuendo I can set the pan law to 0dB tha avoids this efect. Protools and Audition have this option too.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've seen over on the Audition forum explanations of this sort of thing ... stereo summed to mono being down -3db sort of thing. I know Jarle can discuss how to avoid this by setting up the audio channels as a preset then applying it to sequences ... but that is WAY above my working knowledge.

Neil

[LluisV]

After some tests, I've seen that premiere uses -3dB pan law with mono files on any track type and on mono tracks.

Two copies of mono file, one in a mono track and other in adaptative track, both sent to a diferent stereo submix each.

In both cases the submix is -3db low.

And 0dB pan law in other cases.

Two copies of stereo file, one in the mono track (is a nonsense) and other in a adaptative track, both sent to a diferent stereo submix each. The mono track has -3dB pan law applied. the stereo track has 0dB pan law applied.

Sumary, it seems that all mono files have a pan law of -3dB, and I've not found any setup option to change this. Audition has the option, that Premiere may should have.

I think the only way to fix this is push up the fader of mono files 3dB

Regards

[R Neil Haugen]

Solid sleuthing there. And seems ... what I thought I remembered, also.

Neil

[LluisV]

I have seen the same behavior in Davinci resolve.

It could be an standard in video editors, may be.

Lluís

[ThomasGaythorpe]

Thanks all for your help, I too found upping the fader by +3dB solved the issue, however I felt this was a bit of a work around and with the vast numbers of files processed via our team, I feel it introduces risk by relying on a human to make sure that pan law has been accounted for.
Hopefully in the future,  Adobe will better implement audio integration to suit broadcasters.

[ThomasGaythorpe]

I think I've sussed it, I thought I'd previously tried this approach but apparently not. When the track type is set to Mono instead of Standard using a multitrack mix, panning the track doesn't reduce the volume unless panning to the opposite side.

Audio 1 panned hard left outputting at -18 both in the sequence and output channels. 

Audio 1 soft panned left still outputting at -18 on output 1 and circa -25 on output 2. 

 

[LluisV]

This video could be helpful to understand pan law concepts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMgCSGI45Cw

Lluís