Problems with XDCAM EX Footage

[digitalkiln]

Hello

I recently upgraded to Premiere CS6, and in CS6 opened a version of a project I'd started in CS5.5.2. I'm working with XDCAM EX footage, editing natively.  I'm working with Mac OS 10.7.4, 2010 Mac Pro, NVIDIA QUADRO 4000.

When I play my there are tearing artifacts across many of the clips, and there weren't any in the CS 5.5.2 version. I opened the project in CS 5.5.2 and the same sequence plays fine.

I've tried cleaning the media cache, trashing my preferences, repairing my disk permissions, and creating a new project in CS6 and importing my sequences into it.  Same problems.

I've also had some clips go offline mysteriously, when I try reconnecting (in 5.5.2) I get an error saying there are no video or audio streams and it can't re-connect. The clips play fine in VLC player. But, if I boot from the clone of my OS drive that I created before upgrading to CS6 I don't get any offline clips.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Gerry

Gerry Curtis

savasanafilm.com

http://digitalkilnstudios.com

Message was edited by: digitalkiln

[Carl_S_]

More XDCAM EX coming my way, so had to dive in this problem again. (Had the problem earlier with only a few EX clips in a HD422 project, so I just transcoded those few clips)

Googling around I got:

- A workflow recommendation from Sony for Premiere CS3

- The XDCAM Browser program. (Mac, v2.1)

The recommendation from Sony for XDCAM EX in Premiere is to go through the XDCAM Browser.

I used the function "XDCAM for NLEs" (rightclick on a clip, choose "Export" then there are a few options)

As far as I understand this just rewraps the .MP4 to .MXF files without transcoding.

The MXF files created can be imported in Premiere. Since using these MXF files, the tearing problem seems to be gone.

One seems to loose some (all?) metadata though, compared to importing from the BPAV structure directly. Not sure if this is a setting within XDCAM Browser.

For me this workflow solves the problem for now. Also the direct imported files always got the yellow renderbar in premiere, the new MXF files don't.

Does anybody have any idea why the metadata doesn't come across?

Best regards,

Carl.

[Carl_S_]

Simply dragging clips to a folder also works, it creates a new BPAV structure in the specified folder. When this folder is imported, all metadata is preserved, and so far I have seen no tearing.

So the answer seems to be to first copy XDCAM EX footage through the XDCAM Browser to a newly generated BPAV structure and to import that into Premiere.

For some reason the EX footage in MP4 container always gets the yellow render bar? The same EX footage rewrapped in MXF doesnt get the yellow bar...

Can someone confirm that using the export->"MXF for NLEs" option does NOT transcode, only rewrap?

Best regards,

Carl.

[needles27]

I arrived at this thread late - I have never worked with XDCAM footage before and have an edit starting tomorrow with footage from a Sony EX-3.  Are people having issues with simply ingesting the footage through Prelude - not sure what the re-wrapping, XDCAM browser, etc is all about.

Is this yet another case where Premiere doesn't do what it is supposed to - simply bring footage in and edit it? 

I'm on a Mac - are the problems cross-platform?

[nickdbomb]

It is an Adobe aknowledged bug that is inconsistent, intermitent and cross platformed.

The bug appears on my desktop PC but not my HP laptop.

Keep your fingers crossed and hopefully you won't have a problem.

[Christiaan1]

CARL SCHUURBIES WROTE:

Simply dragging clips to a folder also works, it creates a new BPAV structure in the specified folder. When this folder is imported, all metadata is preserved, and so far I have seen no tearing.

So the answer seems to be to first copy XDCAM EX footage through the XDCAM Browser to a newly generated BPAV structure and to import that into Premiere.

For some reason the EX footage in MP4 container always gets the yellow render bar? The same EX footage rewrapped in MXF doesnt get the yellow bar...

Can someone confirm that using the export->"MXF for NLEs" option does NOT transcode, only rewrap?

Best regards,

Carl.

Can someone confirm that this is the solution for every system?

Hope to hear from you, so that I can start using Prem Pro CS6 I bought months ago...

(Am still working with 5.5 for this bug)

Regards,

Christiaan

[Christiaan1]

XDCAM EX Browser can be found in the Version 2.6. But I did not find it on a Sony site.

On Sony I found this:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-xdcam/resource.downloads.bbsccms-assets-micro-xdcam-downloads-XDC...

EXCAM (No ex) browser 2.1

Can this be used for my ex3 to hopefully solve the tearing?

Regrads,

Christiaan

[Carl_S_]

Did some more tests:

Test material: A folder containing a BPAV folder that was copied directly from an SD memorycard recorded by a Sony EX3.

Imported this folder directly in Premiere -> tearing.

Opened this folder in XDCAM Browser, copied the clips to a new folder with XDCAM Browser, imported the resulting copy in Premiere -> NO tearing

For me this seems to solve the problem. The copy looks the same as the file structure that was copied from the camera, but the result in Premiere is different. Importing was done selecting the folder in Media Browser in Premiere, and dragging the clips to a bin, resulting in an import.

Also the metadata comes across. The only thing I don't understand is why we get the yellow render bar, and with HD422 footage not. It's the same MPEG2 Long-GOP codec, but at different rates/levels, is the difference that big? Anyway I'm happy that I can now use the footage and don't need to transcode.

It would be nice if some more people could confirm if this workflow works for them too, because of the intermittent nature of this bug.

Carl.

[Christiaan1]

Hi Carl,

I will test this in a couple of days with my EX3 and premiere pro CS6. I'll let you know.

Thanks for your post.

Regards,

Christiaan

[nickdbomb]

Thanks for testing but the real rub is the hundreds of clips already in the RAID archive not on the SxS cards.

For new projects, Ill test your workflow and post results.

It would be a long painful proceedure to rebuild each clip in a CS5.5 projects from scratch for CS6 using the Sony XDCAM browser.

[Christiaan1]

You're right Nick.
ADOBE... Please help all of us who bought your CS6 software and can not use it!

Looking forward to that moment!

Kind regards,

Christiaan

[Carl_S_]

nickdbomb wrote:

Thanks for testing but the real rub is the hundreds of clips already in the RAID archive not on the SxS cards.

For new projects, Ill test your workflow and post results.

It would be a long painful proceedure to rebuild each clip in a CS5.5 projects from scratch for CS6 using the Sony XDCAM browser.

Assuming you have the clips in their BPAV folder: Make the clips offline in Premiere. On the RAID: Move the clips to a different folder. Open this folder with XDCAM Browser, then copy the clips back to their original location WITH XDCAM Browser. (So you replace the "original" files with a copy made by XDCAM Browser. Then in Premiere relink the media. You can probably also just make the copy and start Premiere. It will probably complain and ask for the files. Not sure exactly how I did this, what it comes down to is:

You don't need the original cards, just make a copy of what you already have on your RAID through XDCAM Browser.

Be sure that your footage is in the correct folder structure:

/whatever/BPAV/CLIPR etc. If it is right, XDCAM Browser will recognise the folder when you select it and display the clips, which you can then drag to a new folder. XDCAM Browser will create a new BPAV structure in the directory you copy to. So you (seemingly) end up with the same you had before. They have just been "touched" by XDCAM browser.

Carl.

[BenForder]

Does anyone have any solutions other than transcoding for when the files have been stored outside of their card folder structure?  We have thousands of clips sitting in archive folders, just as mp4 files,  we always pulled them off the cards as files when dumping them to laptops in the middle of shoots - and now we're having nightmares trying to transcode loads of clips when we need to use older footage.  We can't even go back to cs5.5 now as two of our workstations only have cs6!  Aaarrrgh.  I've already screwed up two client deadlines because of this.

Ben

[nickdbomb]

FYI,  Over a month ago Adobe tech support told me the bug has a number it is MAKePCS6. 

Is Adobe still working on a fix?

Are we a ball of wet laundry left in  the corner to dry forcing us to iron out the wrinkles Adobe has perminately created?

Should I switch my career to screen writing?

Must we deal with FUBAR situation on our own?

I haven't missed a deadline yet but worked through a few weekends and many long nights that would not be necessary if this bug was fixed. 

It's not so easy to find and fix the files using the XDCAM browser. I've evolved my EX1 workflow starting in CS4 when I would copy the contents to portable hard drives in the field then in the studio to a mirrored array for long term storage then to a striped array for editing.  I recently added a RAID 10 array that new video is being transferred to for long term storage and burned to Blu-ray discs.  Some of the files on the drives have been saved only as MP4 outside of the wrapper.

I've been hoping for a fix so I won't need to angonizingly rebuild all my thousnads of archived clips on all those drives.

[Jarle Leirpoll]

Since Adobe is licensing some codeks from MainConcept, this might not be entirely in Adobes hands. And rest assured that if there was an easy fix, we'd already have it. It's is very hard to get to the root of this problem. Not all users have the problem. Some do, but not always on the same material. And the amount of tearing varies with the import method.

Too many variables for easy problem solving. 😞

/jarle

[Roddy Mc]

Im sorry Leirpoll, it wasnt broke in cs5.5 so that means Adobe broke it in CS6. If it aint broke dont fix it. Put simply all the extra coding has broken it somewhere and for Adobe to take nearly two months with out any solid info or updates just excuses that they are working on says alot, the programmers must be either bloody slow OR Adobe hasnt prioritised this meaning they dont care....simples ... squeek!

[Jarle Leirpoll]

Roddy Mc: What makes you think that MainConcept never updates their decoders? MPEG decoders have become much more efficient over the last few years. The one in CS6 may be different from the one in CS5.5. We don't know. MainConcept knows. Not trying to put the blame on them, mind you. The world isn't black and white. There are many shadows of gray. What we do know is that their current decoder (if at all involved) doesn't work with CS6. I know several Adobe employees, and I can assure you they're as frustrated as we are. And I'm sure theat MainConcept employees are too.

Like many others, I've contributed to the solving of this problem by sending in problematic files and projects, filing detailed bug reports. I have gotten a lot of questions back from the Premiere Pro team, so I know that several knowledgeable people are working on this. So to state that they're not doing anything, or working slowly, is just wrong.

I repeat: If this was an easy fix, it'd already been in our hands.

[Roddy Mc]

And as I stated earlier it wasnt broke? As you will well know the software has been released with a major flaw for many users who are having to use work a rounds or back up footage waiting for a solution.

I dont see any press release from Adobe stating their software is flawed for users of XDCAM or HD MXF files so if your using that format of footage beware you will have to use a work around in cs6!

Its leaves on the track syndrome, your train is late but all your told is there are leaves on the track. But your not aware that the leaves break a connection in the motor room stating you dont have full connectivity to the tracks therefore safety dictates a speed of 30mph no more hence late train!

If adobe were more professional AND cared about those needing to update to use lets say more than 4 cameras in a shoot, anti stabilisation or what ever the latest addon in cs6 they should have thoroughly tested the software before making claims like " its made by professionals for professionals" It isnt professional by a long way, full of bugs crashing stabilisation, bugs in multicam and of course the main issue here tearing appearing in footage from certain formats.

I lost a week due to this issue and had to re-edit a massive production in a previous version. I asked if i coud have an extention on a trial version and didnt even get a reply!

I have submitted examples, from the very start of this issue arising.

Its broke, shouldnt have been released broke and now that it has been released should have been fixed within 2 months! along with updated statement as to progress, hell even the community has to provide footage for them to recreate the tearing issue that says alot to me!

Not being able to fault find the issue from working previous software also says a lot to me.

Yes I am a programmer and im not very impressed at all!

[nickdbomb]

Leirpoll,

Thanks for the update.  Is it Possible Adobe for marketing reasons, is not keeping it's user informed on the progress of this bug?

[Steve_Hoeg]

We know this has been a big issue for many users and are working on addressing it as soon as we can. We are sorry that this can take a while but every change has some risk and we need to ensure these things do not introduce unintended consequences.

[UlfLaursen]

SteveHoeg wrote:

We know this has been a big issue for many users and are working on addressing it as soon as we can. We are sorry that this can take a while but every change has some risk and we need to ensure these things do not introduce unintended consequences.

Thanks Steve - keep our fingers crossed for a soon solution

/Ulf

[Stephen_Spider]

SteveHoeg wrote:

We know this has been a big issue for many users and are working on addressing it as soon as we can. We are sorry that this can take a while but every change has some risk and we need to ensure these things do not introduce unintended consequences.

Big issue? Yup, a show stopper for many. Do the product managers know what a BFD this is? Do they need to get phone calls asking for statements on the bug from video production publications? If this were a priority, something would be done in the last 3 months.

[jstrawn]

Big issue? Yup, a show stopper for many. Do the product managers know what a BFD this is?

Yes.

Do they need to get phone calls asking for statements on the bug from video production publications?

No. That won't expedite a fix.

If this were a priority, something would be done in the last 3 months.

Something is being done. Please stay tuned.

[Stephen_Spider]

Well thanks for replying at least. I'll try to refrain from venting for a while. Good luck with this.

[Christiaan1]

Hoping for a soon update! would be very welcome!

[Ed Edited It Productions]

Oh my, the original EX issue was first discovered/reported on this forum in May. It's the end of August! Wait just a few more months, and we'll all probably get the wonderful opportunity to upgrade to the all new CS 6.5!  Will EX footage work in that version? Well, testing that functionality is just part of the excitement you get when purchasing the upgrade! Oh, and then, well, when things don't work "optimally", you'll be told it's because of your 'outdated hardware', which, of course, used to work just fine with previous versions. (For now, I'll crawl back under my rock, live in my happy little CS 5.0 world, editing EX with my outdated machine, thank you very much...)  Now, if only the ADBE shareholders read this forum!