After Effects Mogrt Render time in Premiere

[Guest]

I've been working some mogrts with mostly text fields and positioning . When importing the morgt into Premiere 2019 it shoots the render time to 1 hour for 10 minutes.

This doesn't seem logical when the data changes are simply text base and position changes that "should be vector in nature.

Now I'm asking are the mogrt's actually vector or simply an encoded output that is supposed to mimic vector ?

The reason I'm asking this is because I've tried several different methods  of exporting the video.

When I tried as a test to lower the VBR down to 1.6 with a file size of 43 mb , the time  to render was exactly the same as rendering at youtube 1080p ? This doesn't seem logical  in the nature of the amount of data that is exported at such a very low bit rate.

Scratching my head at this point because I really don't understand the why mogrts in after effects are causing such slow rendering in Premiere. ?

AMD 8 core machine / 32 gigs of ram / 2 gigs on the graphics card / 24 bit sound interface.

Is the encoder using multi-threads ? Because I can see in the infinity it is set for the 16 threads I have  utilizing the 8 cores on the cpu.

I'm completely baffled  at this point and hoping someone may have had the same issue ?

Am I overlooking something ?

[Guest]

SO I took the videos  and placed them in a comp in AE 2019 / Placed the Comp that has the mogrt overlay . Almost the exact same layout as I had in premiere, the video rendered in 4 minutes.

Brain is pretty much a ghost town on how one application(AE 2019) is rendering the raw vector out in 4 minutes, is out performing the 63kb mogrt in Premiere ? Been testing this all day, how Premiere was released like this is kind of baffling.

[Dave_LaRonde]

Could it possibly be that PP is A VIDEO EDITING APPLICATION and not a compositing, effects and motion graphics application? 
You think the two just might work a tad bit differently?  Maybe Abobe's pushing the envelope in PP just a little with mogrts, hmmmmm?

[Guest]

When creating shapes in PPro 2019 , it has no issues with rendering them out ? Both AE and PPro 2019 are supposed to be vector based ? I feel it is something in how the AE is compressing the mogrt  which is taking PPro way to much time to uncompress and render.

When scrubbing through a sequence with the PPro using the AE mogrt it plays smoothly. The fact that lowing the VBR  to the lowest possible setting  in PPro didn't effect rendering speed is a red flag to me that it is the mogrt.

You absolutely correct in the differences, but that should be null if everything is vector based .

[Guest]

Further testing.

I separated the mogrt into 3 sections, base graphic non mogrt that was in the mogrt, a checkbox controlled graphic and  a text areas. I left the data of all of the controls of the created single mogrt, which is about 23 fields.

Control list from the Essential panel:

9 text fields

4 Check boxes show and hide a selection graphic

9 color controls

1 slider

Test Set up : 10minutes of edited video (render time 6 minutes) Youtube 1080p modified to vbr @ 12 / 12

With just the base layer graphic which I optimized even further by exporting as a single frame png  encoded in 10 minutes

With the base layer and checkbox mogrt  the render was 12minutes. (keep in mind the mogrt has all of the control from the original mogrt which is 21)

When adding the 9 text fields on top of the  1 png and 1 checkbox control mogrt, the render time shot up to 30+minutes.

I'm concluding that PPro is incapable of handling many text inputs at one time   and now I am at a cross roads on how to fix this.

Waste even more time building out the text field in premiere ? Export each individual text field out of after effect ...

How is it even possible that text is causing the rendering to increase almost by double ? Are mogrts for bloggers only or are they to be used for deep content creation ?

[Roland Kahlenberg]

Others have reported similar performance issues with MoGRTs - hopefully a fix is upcoming. Meanwhile, if you don't require per character text animations, I suggest authoring your MoGRTs in PPro.

[Andrew Yoole]

I can echo similar experiences in an ongoing job I'm working on.  It's a series of 10x30 second TV promos for a network, with upcoming movie and TV show content changing each month. 

Every frame of the promos must have an animated film title and copyright disclaimer, which I generate with a Mogrt.  There's 3 text fields and a small logo graphic, and they render very quickly in Premiere, perfect solution.

But there's also a full frame graphic at the top and tail of each promo that animates on and off - vector-based graphics, 2 text layers and motion blur etc.  These render directly in AE in about 45 seconds, but in Premiere take 3-5 minutes.  Whats more, if anything in the edit changes underneath the graphic, it obviously has to re-render.  The Premiere timeline chugs to a halt whenever it encounters the unrendered graphic.

The ultimate solution for us was to abandon the Mogrt option for the full frame graphics and just pre-render from AE with an alpha channel.  It gives us instant, real time playback in Premiere, and no endless re-rendering as the edit is worked upon.

So in our experience, Mogrts are great for simple overlay components, but impractical for anything even slightly complex.

[Guest]

"Dream bigger. Creative Cloud."

I did, and the products failed.

[OussK]

I notice that also, some time using MOGRT in PP required a lot of time to render specially if you want to keep it on screen for long time

my best solution ids to keep the MOGRT as simple as possible and keep away from using to much effects and elements.

[Alexandre Parenteau · Accepted solution]

The next version will have a fix specifically about the render time discrepancy between Pr and AE of Mogrt. Hopefully this is the same problem that is happening to you. Sorry for the inconvenience.

The problem was getting worse as the number of Mogrt controls was increasing. You can try to limit of those, if possible.

[Guest]

I tried this, I had 4 controls on 3 mogrts, created a test run and It rendered 15 minutes slower then having all of the controls in one mogrt. The controls themselves aren't the issue from what I've tested, it is the text that is creating the slowdown. It is either something with the toolkit text from the CC  or a rendering of text elements.

[Roland Kahlenberg]

I do not have such issues with MoGRTs. My typeGEMs V2 MoGRT has over 40 controls and render times in PPro are acceptable - 20 seconds for a 12-second

I have other MoGRTs with options to select up to three text layer Source Text properties - and still nothing even close to the render-time issues others have reported.

Until the fix Alex has mentioned, and even without the fix, MoGRT users should be looking at using PPro's Render and Replace

feature. Additionally, look at using the Effect Controls Panel's Motion Props for adjusting Transform Properties once you've applied Render and Replace.

[Guest]

Render and Replace would be great, if I was the one who is editing the actual production footage hundreds of miles away.

The mogrt is designed to make editing sports footage a lot easier by laying down a scoring section, name inputs and action indicator; compiled into a single easy to use interface for PPRo. The mogrt is then laid as a single track and sliced (c)  when either the score changes or during a player action.  Videos are 30-40 minutes @ 1080p

The end user is not familiar with After Effects to switch his entire production work flow to AE.

.

Thank you for the input I will look at  Render and Replace for less complex projects.

It just isn't the right solution for 30-40 minutes that I have no access to .

just thought of something : freeze frame the four action  parts  when nothing is happening or the score isn't changing.. will have to test this out.

With AMD I am using OpenCL, not Cuda.

[Roland Kahlenberg]

Frame Hold options and if viable, Time Remapping will help to speed up workflow. AND BETTER MOGRT AUTHORING!
Make them as long as is required. Then leave it to the editor to use Render and Replace and Frame Hold Options and Time Remapping. Not all MoGRTs are created equally.

[Karmahacker]

Now installed Premiere 22 any fix yet for the same issues? 

Thanks!

[pcmr]

Is it already fixed on the latest version?

[lflegg]

Bringing almost any kind of MoGrT into PP, from anywhere, even very basic ones is about as productive and enjoyable as clawing my eyes out with a spatula.

Adobe just literally shouldn't have even touched MoGrTs (over a year ago - wtf? it's still so, so, so buggy) just opening the Essential Graphics panel with a normal amount of MoGrTs in it brings any machine to its knees, scrolls really slowly, makes timeline playback sluggish, or worse causes impossible to stop zombie-playback, or just crashes.

@Adobe - just have a beta version of PP for all your experimental features which are clearly not ready for market yet.

[Marco226503470sl2]

I'm having the same issue, I think I've narrowed it down. I'm pretty sure it's because the MOGRT is in24 fps, when the seuqence and the rest of my footage is in 60. I think this confuses TF out of the computer and gives it the crazy rendering times that we've all experienced.

That being said, I still don't know how to get around it.