Quicktime MOV files causing long slow load save times

[digitlman]

We have the latest CC2018 on multiple win7 machines and have noticed really slow load and save times lately.

I narrowed it down to quicktime files.

I did a simple test, create a new project and import 10 mxf files. I hit save and it saves instantly with the save dialog window basically only flashing on the screen in less than a second.

i remove those files and import 10 quicktime MOV files. They take a very long time to import and then when i hit save it takes a very long time. It actually "hangs" the program in windows sometimes and even will say (Not Responding) at the top for a while sometimes but then eventually saves.

I have tried different mov files, 1080p h264 from our JVC cameras, and also tried 4K h264 from our OSMO, And i even tried some files exported from a mac with final cut.   it all just goes very slow and cripples our actual projects we are trying to work on.

It seems to take almost 1 second per file for the save time and goes up infinitely. So once you get over 100 source files in your project it becomes a nightmare.

Any ideas?

[Dave_LaRonde]

You're not trying to use AE as a video editing application when you should be using Premiere Pro, are you?

[digitlman]

no, I work at a television station, Our team of editors and motion graphics artists are seasoned experts and we have all used premiere and after effects for countless years.

The issue is simple. you import any other file format into AFX and the project saves instantly. import quicktime files, and the AFX hangs and takes forever to save.

[Dave_LaRonde]

Interesting.  I'm at a station too.  Owned by the company that owns the most stations on Planet Earth.  And the tech-heads at the Home Office have NOT approved CC 2018 for use on company machines.  We still run CC 2017.

Considering CC 2018's rep, I'm glad I don't have it.

[digitlman]

Thanks?? I don't work for your company. I am not sure how you are helping with troubleshooting this issue? If you are not even running the same version of software how can you help me figure this out? 

Did you test it on your system? do you have the same issue?

[DarseZSzabo]

Hi Dave, I mean this with all respect but that's not a response that feels very satisfactory.  If 6 months ago one could have 20 video clips on a timeline, with no effects, and saves in under 15 seconds, it makes no sense that saving the same project now requires 15 minutes.

However, I should heed what you've always said about new versions of Adobe software.  Opened the project in 2015 and it saves in about 6 seconds.  Back to 2015 I go!

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

When did you start noticing this slowdown? Was a script, software or Extension installed recently? Are these files on a network? Have you tried working with QT files on a local drive?

[digitlman]

I first noticed it yesterday when a co-worker said "hey chuck afx is getting hung up and my project is taking forever to save"

So i started experimenting and troubleshooting it and quickly discovered the MOV files were the culprit.

Nothing new has been installed and i tested on 4 different systems and they all do the same thing.

We run on 16Gbit Fiber Channel, but i tested files from a local SSD also and it didnt make a difference.

I just tried again on another system. i copied 30 MOV files each 100-200MB in size to an SSD and dropped them into AFX, then i hit save and the dialog box turned white, the cursor spun, the window says "NOT RESPONDING" at the top and then 20 seconds later it finished saving the 90KB project file.

I do the same thing with any other file format and it saves instantly. i even did 20 MXF files that were 15GB each and the project saved instantly.

I tried updating quicktime and nothing changed.

Can anyone else please test this on their CC2018 systems?

Thanks!

[Byron Cortez]

What codec are you using with your .MOV?

[digitlman]

As i described in my original post these are H264 codec MOV files from 3 different sources.

I created 10 MOV files with DNxHD codec in premiere and drop them into AFX and the project saves instantly.

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

I've been working with on an AEP with about a hundred MP4s and recently completed another project with a smaller number of MOVs. No issues over here. You have an issue somewhere within AE or .within AE's pipeline and your system. 

Try this, in AE's Preferences>Import, under Automatic Footage Reloading; set it to Off. If this doesn't help, try trashing AE's Prefs.

BTW, I managed to import Photo JPEG MOVs with CC 2018 15.1.2

[digitlman]

Thanks Roland, have you tried any H264 codec mov's?  as that appears to be the culprit maybe as mpeg2 files didnt cause this problem.

I am actualy concerned that there may be some sort of metadata being written during the save process that could be causing the delay?

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

H264=MP4. Also, your first post stated your issue began with QT MOVs and not H264 movies; although you did test with H264/MP4s later. In one of your later posts, you stated you had no issue with DNxHD. So, let's confirm if you only have issues with H264.

[digitlman]

Yes my first post said they were all MOV containers with H264 codecs which i know is mpeg4 part 10, that is why i tested with mpeg2 which does not have the issue.

Are you or anyone else able to test with mov+h264 ?

thanks

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

My H264s have the MP4 file extension. Sounds like yours have the MOV file extension. Perhaps you may want to try changing the file extensions to MP4, to see if the issue persists. There is also a setting in AE's Prefs>Import to enable accelerated hardware decoding of H264 files. However, this is just guesswork on my part that this setting is related to your lack of expected performance during saves and import.

[digitlman]

These files are in a quicktime MOV container. MPEG4 is a codec, I can't simply just change the extension as the software will not understand what it is loading. As a container Quicktime can contain dozens of different codec possibilities inside the file. MPG however can be a codec as well as container with mpeg2 and MP4 mpeg4 files.

As another test I tried this on my Laptop which isnt on our Fiber network and is running win10 instead of win7 and it has the same issue so i'm pretty sure this is an actual bug in the latest after effects.

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

You've correctly stated that MPEG2 and MPEG4 are containers as well as CODECs. Hence, changing the MOV file extension of an MPEG4 file to MP4 is perfectly viable. So, do what has been suggested to see if the issue persists. Thereafter, send in a Bug Report and include your original MPEG4/H264 MOVs together with your Bug Report. But do let us know, here, if changing the file extension resolves the issue.

[digitlman]

You can't change the extension for a file container. it will not work.

Anyways i have discovered my metadata writing theory seems to be correct.

I opened resource monitor and saved my project, when i did i saw afterfx write .ims files relating to each MOV files into the media cache files folder.

When i tried saving a project that had MP4 files this did not happen and the project saved instantly.

We really need someone from Adobe to respond to this. I seem to be unable to contact them anymore, the live chat support seems unavailable now even though i used it a couple months ago. the support page just says to come here to the forums now.

[Bob Currier]

You're right that generally speaking, you can't just change the extension of a media file and expect it to work.

But MPEG4 and QuickTime/H.264 are a special case. MPEG4 was based on QuickTime so the format of the file (for a simple video+audio at least) is the same. And since H.264 is supported by both containers, it actually works. But the renamed .mp4 probably does not fully meet the MPEG4 standards so it's lousy for interchanging with anything/anyone else.

Now use any more advanced features than video+audio and the container formats differ and it may not work at all.

(I'm being a bit vague because it's been several years since I dug into the details and differences.)

But I'd agree with Roland that it's worth a try. It might at least help narrow the problem a bit.

Bob Currier

Synthetic Aperture

[MD.Rakib228440912v2s]

I have the same problem with the QT MOV file. It took too much time to import in adobe premiere pro 2021

[Ashley7]

digitlman  wrote

...

i remove those files and import 10 quicktime MOV files. They take a very long time to import and then when i hit save it takes a very long time. It actually "hangs" the program in windows sometimes and even will say (Not Responding) at the top for a while sometimes but then eventually saves.

...

Any ideas?

I concur... I actually hit the same issue... I've had tons of the same types of MOV files in AE just last year, and with more complex projects, and it never took this long before.  I did a web search and found your post.

My footage is straight from a 70D (H.264 within .MOV), each MOV added to AEP seems to add very roughly about 1.3 seconds of save time.

Easy to reproduce: I grab 10 files, pop into aep, takes about 15 seconds to save, add 9 more, takes about ~25 seconds. Note, the resulting AEP is 103KB, tiny... so something's else is up.

I dug further with perf tools...

ImporterMPEG.prm seems to be making ~800 calls to dxgi.dll!CreateDXGIFactory1 per h.264 MOV file. Each call takes about 1 millisecond so that portion alone seems to be causing about 800 milliseconds (close to a second) per file added to the project. It's puzzling that ImporterMPEG.prm is asking for so many IDXGIFactory1 instances, about 800 per file. I don't know why that code path would need to enumerate adapters so many times within a second, or add such adapter enumerations per file.

I sense either a code change which inadvertently incurred this penalty because the author was not expecting the cost, or where this API call was already in place for a long while but it's implementation and therefore overhead increased sometime recently. I unfortunately don't have time to install old CC versions to test further... but if installing CC2017 makes the issue go away, it would indicate this AE code path changed in CC2018... if not, it might mean a dx change or some such.

Until there's a fix, the only work around I can think of would be to transcode to a format which does not hit this, or limit files which cause impact from being added to the project. Since I don't have the disk space to convert every mov I need to use in projects, I'll just deal with it until there's a fix and try not to add MOVs I don't know for certain I need in the AE project.

Note, the above is what I observed on my system.. I can't say it's the same issue as yours but it certainly seems like it.

[Roland Kahlenberg -]

Please file a Bug Report and include samples of your QT files.

[jackthegiantslayer]

Why do I suspect this has something to do with Adobe recklessly removing legacy codecs? Like Dave, I don't know many studios that are even willing to touch the steaming POS that is the latest AE. I sure love paying monthly to use last years' software!

[digitlman]

Sorry I have not been back on the forums to reply. Renaming the files to .mp4 is the current workaround to solve the slow save times. Now i have to deal with this new CC version breaking Encore and we can't author blurays on any of our machines anymore, ugh...

[Stephen Pickering122]

I know this may not resolve any of your issues, but it has seemed to work for me in at least a few situations where I had AE comps (with MOV assets) within Premiere Pro.  If your issues are strictly with Premiere Pro projects that have no AE comps, then I'm guessing this won't help you at all- but in case anyone happened to overlook their AE assets, maybe this will be helpful- if not, sorry to waste your time.

I actually haven't noticed problems with Premiere Pro with MOVs, but certainly, have with AE. I had a Premiere Pro project (Premiere Pro CC18 12.1.2 build 69) that was taking several minutes to save.  I discovered my problem to be some dynamically linked AE files that happened to have a rogue MOV file within the AE project.  I always make it a point of "Render and Replace"ing the files within Premiere Pro to DNxHD first, then "Replace with After Effects Composition", so that I never bring QuckTime files in AE.  But somehow I missed this or it was from a previous project that I imported.  My fix was:

I renamed "ImporterQuickTime.prm" to "ImporterQuickTime.prm.old" within "C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe After Effects CC 2018\Support Files\(Media Core plug-ins)\Common"

This let me open the premiere pro project and save almost instantly, even with the AE files still being present.  HOWEVER, obviously, the Quicktime assets I had in AE show as offline.  In my case this wasn't a problem because I knew what the QT video was and simple transcoded it in Media Encoder, then brought it back into AE.  Getting rid of the ImporterQuickTime.prm also prevents me from accidentally importing QuickTime media.  I've actually had AE projects crash while opening due to QT assets.  Removing this importer cripples the project (I had to transcode and relink EVERY offline qt asset), but I was at least able to open the project (which was literally impossible after AE decided one day it was no longer going to open the project- I think it knew I had a deadline).

In any case, maybe this doesn't help anyone or doesn't actually have anything to do with the original issue you're posting about, but maybe it'll help the person like me who couldn't pinpoint exactly what the issue was but knew it was something to do with Adobe and QuickTime.

-Stephen