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Simple 3D projection is soft / blurry

Community Beginner ,
Aug 12, 2020 Aug 12, 2020

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I have a photo, I'm animating a small push in. I created a few solids for the ground, a building, and some awnings. The projection is working as expected, but it's noticeably softer and more blurry than the guide layer.

I've tried everything I could find online: No depth of field on the camera, shadow map set to 4000, no shadow diffusion, and it doesn't seem to matter if the projection material is close to either the light or the projection catcher. Camera settings and projector resolution don't help either.

Rick Gerard recommends parallel lights for projections, and while a parallel light does produce a sharper projection, as far as I can tell a parallel light will only project correctly onto a perpendicular surface. My ground plane doesn't receive a projection and my awnings (at a 45 degree angle to the building) are distorted.

I looked at the Cinema 4D renderer, but I can't get any projections out of it; materials don't have the "Transmit Shadows" option.

I'm afraid my answer is "Yeah, projections in AE are a little blurry." Can anyone confirm? Would I have better luck in Flame?

 

Thanks for your time.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Beginner , Aug 13, 2020 Aug 13, 2020

In case someone finds this in the future, I discovered that the focal length of the camera was the main culprit.

For reasons beyond my understanding, longer focal lengths resulted in a blurrier projection. Ludicrously short (5mm) lenses gave me a much sharper projection. I'd love to know why if someone could provide an explanation.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 16, 2023 Mar 16, 2023

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Try using a parallel light source.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 16, 2023 Mar 16, 2023

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Thanks but that does not fix the issue for me at least.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 16, 2023 Mar 16, 2023

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These settings:

RickGerard_0-1679003894152.gif

 

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 16, 2023 Mar 16, 2023

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I appreciate the help but that doesn't fix the issue me and others are having.  Would you be willing to look at a scene file?

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Community Expert ,
Mar 16, 2023 Mar 16, 2023

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Send it, and I'll need the footage

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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Thank you I really appreciate it!  Here is a link to download the project:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/kxbwvj82fb7f0osmgfy4q/h?dl=0&rlkey=z020h1b3dbsicv0ui9nw62tvo
This project demonstrates the two issues I'm having - slightly blurry projections as well as weird behavior where two planes overlap (almost like a multiply transfer mode).  The darkening also happens when the background footage is visible.  This was shot in Arri LogC4.  Not sure if that's contibuting to the problems or not.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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I downloaded your project and the setup is a little odd. There is no difference between a spotlight with a 180º  cone angle and a Point light except that the spot light will only cast light away from the light. You have a ton of tracking markers which suggests that you camera tracked the shot, did not set an origin and ground plane, but just selected a bunch of points and chose to create nulls from all the points. That means that you don't have a zero starting position for the camera (Point of Interest at 0, 0, 0 in comp space) and you do not have any nulls lined up with the ground plane where you have chosen to place your shadow catchers. 

 

The point of interest for the spotlight is way off from the Shadow catcher layers, and their positions do not match the position of the null they are parented to. 

 

The position of the Projector layer (copy of the tracked footage) is also a little odd, and so is the orientation.

 

My normal workflow for something like this would be to Camera Track, set an Origin and Ground plane, then use the same target to create a solid and a camera. I would create a solid instead of a null because you can see it, you can change the size of it and turn it into a surface that matches the plane, or use is as a guide layer so that the tracking can be verified. 

 

Then I would parent all 3D layers and the camera to a new 3D null names "Comp Center" null that was placed at 0, 0, 0, then reposition the null to Comp Center. Now new layers 3D layers will be centered in AE's comp space. I would make a copy of the Footage layer you want to use as a projector, make the layer 3D, and Shift + Parent it to the original 3D track solid that the Camera tracker created. I usually set my Track Solids to Guide layers so I can see how the tracking works but they don't render. 

 

Then I would add a Parallel light, and move the light position to the starting Camera position - Shift + Parent. This will keep the light source directly behind the camera, which would work for Camera Tracked shots. where you need a projector unless you want the projection to be applied to another layer.

 

I would then duplicate the footage layer, make it 3D, name it Projector and Shift + Parent the footage to the camera or the light. You can then just grab the Z axis if you have the selection tool set to orient to layer, and slide the Projector layer away from the light keeping it perfectly aligned with the light. 

 

When you have all layers properly positioned, you can set the Shadow Catchers to Shadow only and not accept lights, set the Projector layer to Cast Shadows Only and 100% transmission, and you should be set up. 

 

I spent about 15 minutes trying to line up a light and point it directly at the Shadow Catcher layer, then move the Projector into position without success because the camera had such an odd focal length and nothing had been arranged the way you would arrange a 3D comp that was not camera tracked. 

 

I don't know if that helps. There used to be a great tutorial on Camera Tracking and setting up a projector on a surface with CS5 I think, but I can't find it. Maybe I should do another one. Properly positioning the light and the projector layer is critical in getting the best resolution for your projected shadow. 

 

I'm not sure what the end goal is, but right now, all you have is two shall shadow catchers that match the original footage. I'm not sure where you are going. If you explained the design goal, maybe I could give you some better suggestions.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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Thanks I appreciate you looking at it and the input.  I really would only be ever using camera projection for shots that were 3d camera tracked in Syntheyes then exported to AE.  Syntheyes determins the focal length.  The section I sent was from a much longer shot that needed camera projection earlier in the shot.  I couldn't really show that part but the example I sent showed the issues I was experiencing with the softness as well as the weird darkening where layers overlap.  I've tried using point lights, spot lights, and parallel lights without seeing any difference with these issues.  I wish AE just had a simple way to project through a camera like Maya or Nuke instead of the psuedo real world light projecting through a layer technique.  Do you know why the projection is soft or why the layers appear dark where they overlap?  

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Community Expert ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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I took another look at your comp. If you remove the parenting to a null, the shadow catchers are scaled down to about 2%, and your projection layer is scaled to 1%. The shadow catchers should be at 100%, and so should your projector layer should also be close to 100%.

 

There is nothing about the camera, lights, and layer setup in your sample comp that looks correct. It's not at all the way I would approach tracking that shot and setting up some shadow catchers. 

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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Ok thanks for taking another look.  All the tutorials I've watched say that the projection layer will have to be scaled down to a very small value because it is so close to the camera.  I've never seen anything that mentions the scale of the shadow catchers.  From what I can tell it makes no difference in the quality of the projection.  I'd pay to see a tutorial that shows the proper way to do this with a 3d tracked camera (for footage, not just a still image) that gives high quality results.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 17, 2023 Mar 17, 2023

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I found the tutorial on projection that shows how to line up a light and projector. It's old, but it works just fine if you change the spotlight to a parallel light.

The workflow in the latest builds is a little different. The Ray Traced Renderer is gone, so you must use parallel lights. 

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 20, 2023 Mar 20, 2023

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Thanks!

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