Which color profile to use for assets when NOT using color management.

[Letty2019]

Hello,  my computer monitor is calibrated at rec709 gamma 2.4

I'm not using color management because it isn't needed as per Neil's advice https://mixinglight.com/color-grading-tutorials/demystifying-premiere-pros-color-management-and-fini...

Now that I'm not using CM, what I can't figure out is, which color profile to assign the imported assets (tiff images) should I....

A) create the tiff in photoshop, embed the sRGB profile in the tiff and then import the asset into AE and leave it alone...

OR

B) same thing, but when it's in AE, interpret the asset's profile to rec.709 ?

final project for bluray disc / hdtv. 

I'm leaning on A...  

Thanks!
Letty

[R Neil Haugen]

Create the tiff in sRGB in Photoshop.

In Ae, project settings, you need to use the HDTV Rec.709 option. And ... I'd love if say @David Arbor or one of the other Ae wiz's stopped in ... as sometimes it's needed to uncheck "linearize color working space" in Ae and PrPro's sequence setting to "linearize color" ... and other times, not needed or maybe even wanted.

And I never remember those details.

Neil

[Letty2019]

Hi Neil,

In your video (part 1) you said to turn off CM if  your monitor is calibrated to rec709...

Did you mean if your monitor is an 'external monitor' or the computer desktop monitor?

Caz now people are telling me to turn ON CM, so AE and PPro can access the ICC profile created by x-rite.

Thanks,

Letty

[R Neil Haugen]

IF your monitor is able to run full 100% of sRGB after calibration, and you've got say the pro version of the Xrite ( the cheaper version won't fully get it right) you should be ok with a monitor set to sRGB/Rec.709 and calibrated with the Xrite i1 Display PRO software/puck ... if not on a Mac.

After calibration with the i1 Display Pro, I ran the free version of Lightspace profiling software, using Resolve as a patch generator, to get a profile of my calibration. That's a series of graphs showing desired versus achieved display performance. My BenQ PD2720U was looking pretty good on most of the charts, and the all-important deltaE value was well below visual effect, and the only place it was close to noticeable was one spot in deep shadows.

I'm good to go without that preference setting.

If on a Mac however, or if not using the i1 Display Pro software, you should (probably) always set the display color management preference to on.

Neil

[David Arbor]

I just watched part 1 of your Insight, Neil, nice!

I'm with you here, use CM in AE and set up your profile in PS and import it into AE. In the top of the Project panel you should see the profile associated with the TIFF sequence. Does it show what you expect?

"Linearize Working Space" will change how values handle when you're compositing (although you don't have to just be compositing for this to be useful), but you'll still be outputting your sRGB values: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCVIqG-D2Vk

[Letty2019]

OK, so I should turn on CM in AE.  ..and in the project settings work space choose rec.709 in the drop down.

The big question then is, for the assets, should I interpret them to be rec 709 or leave them alone in their original state of sRGB ?

...and if I do reinterpret them to rec 709, do I use the regular 709 or the hdtv 16-235 rec709 ?

I was thinking the profile of the assets should match the project settings work space drop down menu..... regular rec 709 2.4 gamma?

[Letty2019]

I think I'll just do everything in rec709, all asset profiles and project settings, with CM on.  I don't think I can go wrong with that.

My main remaining issue is to set gpu at 0-255  or 16-235.    I'll just do a bunch more test discs and see what looks better.

[R Neil Haugen]

GPU settings for Rec.709 should be 16-235 ... that is the standard for Rec.709 media.

Neil

[Letty2019]

I'm going in circles...

so what is causing the gamma jump when I export to disc?

dark on the timeline, brighter on the disc.   I've already tried all the presets in AME and they all come up the same.  The gpu is the last culprit. 

I've spent over  a month on this and have wasted so much time trying to get a simple export to bluray.  None of this makes any sense anymore.

PPro is 20 years old and it can't make a simple export to disc without jumping thru hoops?

And there isn't any help from Adobe in their booklets about 'setting the gpu' or addressing this issue.

It's making me ill.  So much time wasted.  I just ordered a new x-rite pro,  and will set gpu to 0-255 and recalibrate and see if that removes the gamma jump.  

I don't know what else to do.

The settings you say, the 16-235  with rec709 are not giving me a bluray disc that looks like the timeline.  I don't even want an exact "look"  I just want the gamma or brightness to look like the timeline.  The hdtv is calibrated, the computer monitor is calibrated, everything is set with CM to rec709, YET  the final output is crap and I'm at my witts end.

I've read hundreds of blogs and seen dozens of videos and everybody has their own theory and rules.  Which to follow?   After reading those, now I am really lost.

I wish Adobe had some simple instructions on how to export to disc properly.   I have no idea why so many consumers allow Adobe to drag them all around the map with no real answers.  Making a bluray disc should be the most simplist thing to do, yet, after a month's of research, I'm better off getting a job at Home Depot than trying to be an editor.  It's insanity and it's a waste of time and a waste of life. But I'm chained to this chair now waiting for my $300 calibrator to double check and jump thru the same hoops again, knowing that it won't work but willing to try again and again and again.

[R Neil Haugen]

Hey, I understand the frustration. The entire color management process is to me so freaking, needlessly, obtuse and complex.

I've responded to your pm of course ... and if you could dropbox me a short file to check, I'd be happy to take a look on my setup.

Neil

[Letty2019]

Yes!  I will send you....   I pm'd you...