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CC loses links to render files?

Contributor ,
Jun 28, 2013 Jun 28, 2013

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Render an area, save the project, close the program and load the project, and the previously rendered area comes up red again.  Alternately, close the project and reload it, and you may or may not be asked to relink.

Anyone else seeing this?  The render files are still there; but the links are apparently lost -- and irrevocably, once you close program.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 12, 2016 Aug 12, 2016

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Hey.  16hours for 3 minutes!  Wow, I thought I was a perfectionist...

If it's still open, force it to quit.  If it's saved anything in a backup, or you've resaved, you're gonna have to render again.  Now, then... ...Open premiere on it's own and open a new project.  once the new project is open, go to file open recent, and pick your original file.  It should find the xmp files and read them properly.  Something with the open command from the system bypasses this process, and you lose the renders.  If you open premiere on its own and start a new project first, you should get it back.  If you have a warp that doesn't conform properly, SOL, sorry pal.

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New Here ,
Aug 12, 2016 Aug 12, 2016

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Hi Harley

Many thanks, that sounds promising, I'll try that...

As for editing time, yup it does take time, selecting clips, multiple

layers, synching audio and dropping gradient overlays , but I bet you

agree, it's all worth it when we get a great result

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New Here ,
Aug 12, 2016 Aug 12, 2016

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Not good news, I just tried your suggested fix, but no luck

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Engaged ,
Aug 15, 2016 Aug 15, 2016

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As I have noted previously, the ONLY way I can preserve render files is if I export a sequence that matches timeline/sequence settings.  Then, if I have missing render files, I bring that export back in as a "top" layer.  It's a pain, a workaround, and only works until effects are altered or tweaked.  It's not 100% foolproof, but for intensive renders may work fine.

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Explorer ,
Oct 31, 2016 Oct 31, 2016

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Same issue... disappearing renders after save and re-launch.  It's always something isn't it Adobe?  What ever happened to quality control and building reliable software?

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New Here ,
Nov 03, 2016 Nov 03, 2016

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Same issue here !!

All files warp stabilized lose renderfiles when restart...

Terrible issue witch takes a lot of our time, we need a solution Adobe ??

Kind regards,

Luc

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New Here ,
Nov 09, 2016 Nov 09, 2016

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Using CC2015.2

My issue is ONLY with clips using the WARP STABILIZER effect.

The workaround of using a blank sequence before saving did not work for me.

However sometimes making the video track visible/invisible affects this problem but not a solution.

Here is my solution:

This should save you hours of rendering...

1. Make sure your clips using the effect are fully ANALYZED. Sometimes you will be surprised to find out that they are not. If your clip is NOT analyzed, no matter how many times you render it, it will come up UN-Rendered on the next project loading!!!!

2. Many times, when upgrading your project from a previous version of premiere, your clips containing this effect, will become UN-ANALYZED. Go through your project and analyze each clip again. You only need to do this once.

3. When finished, run your rendering process.

4. Save the project and exit.

5. Open the project again.

6. When your project loads you will notice that these same clips appear RED or unrendered.

7. Simply click on each clip one by one and DISABLE & RE-ENABLE the WARP STABILIZER effect.

8. VOILA! the GREEN line appears over the clip, recognizing the rendered clip associated with it!

If only there was a faster way of disabling and re-enabling the effect on multiple clips at the same time.

Alas! If you know of a way this can be done post here.

PS. Also found out that while the project is loading, if you quickly click on each clip that has the effect, that clip will turn green instead of red!!!! grouping them does not help - you still have to click on each one of them.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 01, 2016 Dec 01, 2016

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Yeah, I'm on Windows 10 with the latests updates and PP CC 2015.4.

These methods are working for me:

- the one with the empty sequence

- the one with disable-renable sequences with warp

- if I get errors because from Lumetri, Morph, Denoiser or even Warp, I close and then open again PP

Don't forget to save your project all the time and export your project from time to time if it gets too complex.

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Contributor ,
Mar 30, 2017 Mar 30, 2017

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Thank you!!

rororo74 Nov 9, 2016 8:40 PM   

This solution works for me. If I turn off the Warp Stabilizer effect and turn it back on, the effect changes from red to green in the timelime, so the render files were there, Premier just looses their link once the project closes and openes again.  COME ON ADOBE... this solution was posted over 6 months ago and this problem has clearly been happening for years.  WHY IS THERE NO FIX YET??? As a long time user of FCP and Premier, I am so pissed at how slow Adobe is to fix known issues that cause such serious problems with our projects that potentially add hours to our projects.  This costs us money Adobe and you clearly seem to give two — about it.

Moderator note: First warning. Please do not use profanity on Adobe forums.

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Adobe Employee ,
Mar 30, 2017 Mar 30, 2017

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Hello Schiemer,

Sorry for the frustration. If you were not already aware, A forum post is not a support ticket. These forums happen to be largely user to user based with some participation from Adobe employees.

  • COME ON ADOBE...
  • this solution was posted over 6 months ago and this problem has clearly been happening for years. 
  • WHY IS THERE NO FIX YET???
  • I am so pissed at how slow Adobe is to fix known issues that cause such serious problems

Unfortunately, the support team does not have the bandwidth to address each and every post on these forums. Therefore, we are not aware of all potential solutions and workarounds to every issue. Apologies for that.

In order for us to take action, contact us and work with our agents directly. That way, a support ticket is actually generated.

You can also file a bug with the product team. Please file the bug and potential solution or workaround here. That way, the product team will be aware of it, most certainly.

I will try to reproduce this issue and file a bug if I can do so.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Engaged ,
Jun 05, 2017 Jun 05, 2017

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And rather than dealing with this annoying bug, Adobe focuses on the language of the frustrated customer.

Way to go Adobe. Glad to see you've got your priorities straight.

Next, Why United Airlines is correct to beat paying customers...

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Explorer ,
Jun 05, 2017 Jun 05, 2017

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Come on, that's not fair.

But this long running forum does make me think that Adobe don't care enough about Premiere and don't allocate it the resources it needs.

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Guest
Jul 17, 2017 Jul 17, 2017

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Using Premiere CC 2017... and yes, this weirdness is still happening today.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 17, 2017 Jul 17, 2017

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It is a frustrating issue, having to rerender every single time we open a project.

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Adobe Employee ,
Aug 03, 2017 Aug 03, 2017

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Hi Web of Webs,

I understand the frustration around this bug. I experience the bug in my own projects and am forced to work around it as well. Sorry for your own negative experience.

Adobe focuses on the language of the frustrated customer.

Way to go Adobe. Glad to see you've got your priorities straight.


I apologized for the current behavior and gave routing instructions on how to report the bug. The more people that report the bug, the more likely it will be fixed. If you (or anyone else on this post) have not yet filed a bug, please do so here.

Sorry if you are under the impression that I can merely fix the bug instead of addressing a customer complaint, I can't. I'm not an engineer, I'm in support. I help route issues to the proper folks so that they can be addressed.

I also advocate fixes to the team on behalf of customers, so please keep in mind that I am actually on your side.

Kind Regards,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Engaged ,
Aug 07, 2017 Aug 07, 2017

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Wow !!!!


Thanks for the apology.

You mention, again, bug reporting... whatever happened to the bug tracker. ?
Over the years there have been a few links available to bug-tracker systems, where we doing-adobes-job-users could report bugs, interact with programmers, and track progress. But they have all been reduced, removed, cancelled, etc.

I think I mention in another post the latest link to the latest tracker system, but I forget as that too was discarded.
Shame, and a step in the wrong direction.

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Contributor ,
Aug 15, 2017 Aug 15, 2017

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The more people that report the bug the more likely it will be fixed?  I CALL BS! 

This same exact Warp Stabilizer issue not keeping it's linked render files has been happening and reported since 2013 or later ... this is just the oldest thread I could quickly find:

CC loses links to render files?

Come on Adobe. This is a well known issue by your team and they have not fixed it in over 4 years.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 18, 2017 Aug 18, 2017

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Hey there, Schiemer.  Unfortunately, the issue isn't that it's losing a link to a render.  It may look that way, but the effect doesn't render in previews.  It just doesn't.  Due to the way the effect works, it only renders out on you final output.  Not a bug, just a different kind of effect. Short answer to this:

Put clips into their own sequences and use the warp, then output those to low quality compressed files, and use that in your main sequencing.  You can make the swap later if you wish.  Personally, I apply the warp to high quality, and output both edit quality and high quality, then just replace the footage I create in one selection.  In the end I put my high quality into the whole thing, after all the edits, and output the compressed version for whatever output target I've got.  It's actually faster to output and the quality is amazing.

Reasoning:

With this effect, multiple original frames are used to balance each frame by shifting sections of pixels so that the image appears stabilized.  This has to rehash every time you open the app because it uses whatever rendered frame exists, and shifts the image in several ways, warping the output going to the screen.  What if you move the frame over a little to place the subject, or you zoom the image in any way?  The effect has to re-hash to work on that right?  Wrong.  If you shift the image, the underlying frame information is the same!  So the effect may have to work a little to make sure it hasn't found new motion (like if you keyframe the image moving around the screen), but once it rehashes the shifting into cache, the output is shifted as it plays back.  This works better with higher bitrate proxies or preview renders (upward of 35mb\s @ 1080p), mainly because it doesn't have to uncompress as much.

If you're having a problem with speed, turn off the warp, apply all your other effects before the warp by rendering, and leave it off when you render previews.  This will speed up your viewing of this effect.  It hasn't lost the links to the previews, it's just not a preview render effect.  Its a realtime effect.  It only renders in final output.  It's faster that way.  I've tried effects that do this by rendering the frames, and every time you adjust effects before the stabilization, the whole thing has to render, taking hours.  Adjusting effects after the stabilizer works with color and non PANZOOM, but once panned or zoomed, the stabilizer effect seemed useless, and it took forever to render.  Creating a temporary file with GOP lists that note a shift in pixel sections is better in many ways, as it is only applied to the preview as a realtime adjustment.  It's independent of the rest of the effects, and can rehash to adjust to changes in those effects.  The tradeoff is that this should be used more sparingly, as the algorithm is fairly accurate for short run clips, but not for longer video tracks.

So...

To recap, WARP is acting on the frame information under it, and spitting it back out realtime.  It doesn't preview render.  If you apply it and then output that to a file (the whole sequence) that is a compressed quality for editing, you can use that in your main sequencing, and replace it with the warp sequence, and the source with high quality source, in order to get quality output at the end.

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Contributor ,
Aug 21, 2017 Aug 21, 2017

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This is a cop out answer and an issue that NEEDS to be resolved by Adobe. The reason I say that it's a cop out:  I can find the rendered files in the project render folder after I render the entire time line to green. They exist when the project is open and once I close the project and reopen it, the link to the rendered files (just like the link to all other rendered files with all other effects except Warp Stabilizer) stop linking properly.  So, I can add any effect in the Effect area, render, close and reopen with no issue.  The green bar across the top stays green.  But, once I render the Warp Stabilizer effect onto the timeline, close and reopen, the effects that have been rendered into the render folder (ones that I can open separately and even watch in Quicktime) are no longer linked properly.

Not only is this a glitch that has been in this program for YEARS, but it's one that wastes a serious amount of storage space in some of my larger projects.  Since, each time I close that job, the rendered files still exist in the folder, but I have to re-render the timeline again before the client can see it if they show up to preview and approve before exporting to a final file.

I know there is a work around by exporting the clip once stabilized and importing it back in to the project, but this should not be happening in the first place since the rendered files from the effect in the timeline are there.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jan 27, 2018 Jan 27, 2018

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Hi Tom,

I also have this maddening issue with my own projects. There should be a pathway to reconnect render files. Please file a bug. I will do the same. We need to do better for our customers in this regard.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 11, 2018 Aug 11, 2018

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I agree kevin.  but as I haven't had a chance to test this out recently, I'll try it again, and if it's still a problem, I'll file the bug with all the info I can gather up.

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Enthusiast ,
Jul 29, 2017 Jul 29, 2017

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It's not weirdness exactly.  It's not a malfunction either.  The Warp stabilizer uses the original video frames only, scans the GOP's and finds the background, middle area and foreground.  Some objects will move in the middle and foreground, but the background shouldn't move much.  Once it finds these areas, it warps the image to keep the focus of the image, the foreground, from shifting too fast.  This requires cutting the outer pixels, shifting the framing around and even warping the pixels a bit.  The warp filter can be adjusted on the fly, but still acts only on the input video because it has to re-evaluate the whole algorithm with each adjustment, where other effects can reverse one or two small changes.  Because of this, it has to process the algorithm on it's original input each time.  Apply the warp stabilizer and other warp filters AFTER other changes for best result.  It doesn't lose links to render files.  Place your warp stabilizer last, and it's the only one you'll wait for.  If you render the other effects first, you'll have an easier time of it.

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New Here ,
Aug 02, 2017 Aug 02, 2017

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I called the customer service and the person I spoke to put me on hold to speak to members of the engineering team and returned to say that they told him that this is currently just a flaw of Premiere. (Basically, it's just how the program works). Unfortunately they appeared to indicate there is currently no fix. I hope they will fix this soon as it has already added days to my workflow.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 02, 2017 Aug 02, 2017

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Are we talking a workflow in general or a specific project?

It isn't losing links to rendered files.  I played back some renders in VLC and there was no WARP on them.  The rest of my effects were rendered.

I started running some tests.  What I found is that the Warp Filters work on rendered frame information from either the original data or the rendered data.  The indicator in the window just lets you know that the information you are being shown has an unrendered effect.  Warps render on the fly, by affecting the render info using your cache locations, not the effect render locations.  I noticed in a system profiler app that the warps, when on, cached to a disk more often, and that memory was utilized almost twice as much.  When altering the warp settings, the caching was instantly running, and ram as well.

The logic for that seems simple enough.  The data manipulation for any section of a warp filter beyond the background detection requires the original frame information as well as the adjusters from the other sections (Implicitly defined adjustments that probably use some if\else branching to alter the adjustment patterns).  However, Warps appear to be INPUT ONLY actions.  They only render in a complete output, not an effect render.

One set of tests I ran was particularly interesting, and it gave me more than a few ideas that might help. 

Try nesting your clips in sequences of their own, add all your effects, then place those sequences where you want to place your clips.  Render the nested clip.  It won't change even if you adjust the warp on you master clip.  The reason is that the warp works from your caching, and the nested sequence from the renders that are based on the source sequence output.  It will show as unrendered, but it will still have the location of your last render, and will utilize the most recent render.  When you render the effects again, the warp will be reapplied and the new render will be used.  I would also point out that the old ones aren't always deleted, so, you'll want to adjust your warps as few times as possible.

Note that it will have the unrendered color bar, but it will function rendered.

Another way to handle warps is to handle them in a nested style if you handle them first, like above, and then place all your other adjustments on top of the sequence-clip (using the sequence as a clip), which should render out (even if it doesn't show fully), and only render after you are satisfied with the warp.  Then you can apply other effects and have them render nicely.  It will still show as unrendered (the warp is running from cacheing, and is being evaluated when you open premiere, but your renders should still playback just fine.  However, I did see some stuttering when I used higher grade footage.

With h.264 at 10-15mb\s proxy, it works fine.  Higher than that, and things begin stuttering.  The Profiler I used showed graphics memory was a bit strained, and the access to the disk I used for renders and footage were lagging a bit, when using a nested clip.  Use fast disks and separate them if you can.  Put your renders on something fast, and keep your starting footage on something fast.  By separating things a bit, you multiply the speeds at which you can access the data.  I split up everything to some SSD's and was able to do better with 25-40mb\s proxies (this is a fair balance between quality and speed for me; when I actually do my final output drop, I use DNxHD at high quality with huge files to start, and drop it down to h.264 at 10-15mb\s for a faster playback, small filesize, and faster upload).

It would seem to me that the warp effects are primarily running from memory or caching.  This would be a strategy for increasing the speed of the effect upon adding it, but slow due to it's re-applicative nature.  This would hint that the effect itself is still under some redesign, opting for wetting the appetites of users and determining it's marketability.  I don't know where to give feedback on this particular set of effects, but if you find out, please post it.  I'd like to send my complements on the usefulness of the effects, but add that I desire more from their overall functionality.

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Guest
Aug 03, 2017 Aug 03, 2017

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"A flaw of Premiere" with "no fix". Amazing. This happens mostly with the warp effect, but I am also losing randomly links to render files without the warp effect. Toggle the track output a couple of times and they are gone. I have wasted hours and hours because of this. Add the fact that Premiere is so slow rendering (compared to the competiton) and the result is this program is worthless for any project longer than two minutes.

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