Moving tracks up and down...?

Participant ,
Aug 15, 2009 Aug 15, 2009

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So easy to do in PS AE etc, but a real mystery in PP...

And is it possible to insert a track?

Cheers!

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Aug 15, 2009 Aug 15, 2009
But that is ridiculous. Moving tracks or layers is standard practice in so much other software.
I assume you're talking about software like After Effects or Photoshop, which contain "layers" and not "tracks" in the way that Premiere Pro, and any other editor for that matter, have them . Perhaps it's a semantic difference, but it's an important one: in Adobe software, a "layer" contains one and only one footage item or graphical element, whereas a "track" can contain one or more footage items or g...

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 28, 2020 Aug 28, 2020

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I'm sorry - I'm not understanding what seems painfully obvious here. The original post was asking how to move tracks, which you can't do in Premiere. Yes, you can move layers, create new tracks, there are a hundred workarounds for this, but to not be able to see why this wouldn't be something you'd want to do - and then lazily and pointlessly call into question the poster's editing ability is, as I said, inane. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 28, 2020 Aug 28, 2020

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Again, if that is of interest ... go upvote or make the request. I for one would happily upvote it.

 

It's been requested by some users over what, eleven years? But compared to many other things, it's actually been mentioned only rarely. Given the thousands of people using Premiere every day, that would indicate that the over base isn't pining for this particular thing.

 

But some of them, if it was available ... would probably find it quite useful.

 

We all have our own ways of looking at what is a useful workflow. And are welcome to post on this user to user forum. There is nothing about one person stating they don't find something useful that is demeaning or dismissive, it's simply stating the obvious: they as one person don't find X feature to be of use. And is as valid a point as some other person wanting that same feature.

 

It's a discussion ... with different viewpoints.

 

But again, I'd be happy to upvote the idea. I might even use it occasionally if it was available, but ... certainly not every day.

 

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 28, 2020 Aug 28, 2020

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If we're speaking purely in terms of the feature, I agree with you. It's not vital, it's certainly not something that affects me more frequently than 1/20 edits, if that. Just doing a quick search, that feature has been requested numerous times already, so I'm not going to clog the suggestion box with that. 

 

My response was to "Harm Millaard'"s response, specifically this exerpt:

 

How difficult can it be, but there are other workflows.

Sorry, but this is such a basic question that if you need to ask this, it is better to get a basic education first or consult the manual, help file and study some tutorial.

 

If this isn't demeaning or dismissive (which, let's be honest, it's both), it's certainly discouraging to someone who may be new to Premiere or editing. Having a valid viewpoint on something doesn't mean you aren't being, well, a jerk. I may read a comment and think "wow this person has no clue what they're doing," and that certainly may be a valid viewpoint, but that doesn't exactly help the community. I don't come to this forum to see people fluffing their egos by talking down to beginners, I come because we're all in the same field and it should be a community of support and positivity (but hey maybe I'm naiive). 

 

Unfortunately, I see these types of responses so often in these forums that I generally hesitate to click on a link if I know it's coming here. I get that we're all staring at screens way too long each day, and deadlines make people cranky, but maybe try to unload on a stress ball or Haagen-Daz rather than someone new to the field.

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 28, 2020 Aug 28, 2020

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Part of it is of course as we are all unique, we all react to the same thing differently. I grew up around some blunt old farmers who were rather 'colorful' in their language, rarely "sympathetic" in manner, but underneath had an incredible heart.

 

So what I learned as a kid was that what one said wasn't nearly as important as what one did. Because if you suddenly and truly needed help, they were all over it without ever needing to be asked. And would rebuff any "thanks" afterwards.

 

To see them give someone absolute scorn? Show them someone who said nice things, but never went out of their way when someone truly needed help. I learned a lot about Life and character from those harsh, oft-complaining old buzzards.

 

For this forum ... Harm was an amazing contributor here for quite some years, I only dealt with him for a short period of time before he became inactive due to age and health several years ago. He ran (at his own cost) a service that provided a test project/media for others to test Premiere Pro on their machine against the data points from other machines, which was an amazing boon to the community.

 

This was hard data as to what sort of performance you could expect on what gear. And ... if you weren't getting the expected performance for your gear, you found out exactly where the problem lay.

 

After Harm passed, another user took up the project and ran it for another couple years. He too has gone now.

 

When I started several years back, two of the more noted 'helpers' were Jim Simon and shooternz. Neither was ever going to waste time on typing sympathetic comments. They were "pithy", direct, and short of words. But they knew the app: it's strengths, weaknesses, and total failings, and they knew a ton of different ways of doing anything.

 

They were also very practical ... couldn't care what anyone wanted, wished, or thought should be ... they just dealt with what could work now, this moment, to get work out the door the fastest and most efficient way possible. With this app as it was, who gives a rock about what it "should be".

 

Yea, they offended some people. But they saved my backside times beyond count when I was starting out here, and I was very grateful to them for their help. They didn't owe me anything much less gentle words of comfort. For their time and knowledge, I owed them (and still do!) a ton.

 

I realize that many people really get irked unless the conversation seems ... I don't know, maybe gentle enough or something? And that's a "modern" way of feeling about things it seems.

 

And as someone who's autistic, it was in many ways easier when one was expected to worry less about feelings compared to accomplishments. It's so easy to offend without any intent to do so these days.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 28, 2020 Aug 28, 2020

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I appreciate that response. In many regards, this industry is brutal and unforgiving - between deadlines and meeting client expectations, and knowing that you're only as good as your last project, and that your next job is contingent on those things, it's a meat grinder. To those points, I don't think your mentality isn't congruent with the "modern" mindset. So perhaps impressing those things in here is important, and something I hadn't considered. 

 

When I'm showing someone the ropes, I want them to be excited about what we can create as editors, but I do also want them to understand the demands as well. In that light, it may be doing someone a service to let them know off the top what to expect - coddling isn't something we see a lot of. There's probably merit to finding the line between each extreme. Good chat, and certainly something to consider from a theory standpoint.

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Participant ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Moving tracks up and down would be (to my opinion and workflow) a great comfort when working in the PR space tight environement.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Some users, especially if they come from a DAW background agree with you. Strong evidence is in this thread, and plenty of older ones.

Now, I spread out over dual 21" monitors, plus have become accustomed to doing things the PrPro way, so I do not even know if I would use the Click-drag method much, even if initiated in a later upgrade - maybe, but maybe not. [Remember I am one of those "old dogs," that your grandfather told you about, and we know how they take to "new tricks?"]

I'd file a Feature Request (linked up thread), as there might be enough clamor for this, that Adobe would implement it. I do not think it would be THAT hard, but am not a coder, so maybe it is flat impossible at this date. If there was a good time for implementing it, it would have been between Pr 6.5 and PrPro 1.0, because that was a total rewrite.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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For anyone coming upon this thread later, HERE is a similar, and slightly more recent one. Now, there are links to each, from the other.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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And yes - a solo button would be great! That's something I've found myself looking for too.

I assume you found the Solo Button in Premiere    It is there in the Mixer panel.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Craig,

As I understand the two posters' desires, it is not the isolation of the Audio Tracks, but the physical dragging of ones, already populated up/down the order in the Timeline. I do this by just Adding/Deleteing Video, or Audio Tracks, as PrPro does not allow a Click-drag to move the entire Track into a new order. It's how these Tracks display in the vertical hierarchy in the Timeline, that they wish to alter on the fly.

However, I could have missed something.

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 25, 2009 Aug 25, 2009

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I feel ya. I want this feature about 100 times a day now.

I think the people who don't see the need for this feature are older 'get the razor blade' types. No disrespect to them, but they're just so jazzed to not have to physically cut tape they don't understand that the bar has been raised.And my guess is they don't do many music videos.

It's what I call a 'micro-wave moment'. I never understood what all the fuss was about 'micro-wave ovens'. Until I got one. Now? I couldn't imagine not having one.

Other video editors -do- offer this feature and yeah -every- DAW does this.

The reason people want this is because we want to experiment! Duhhhhhhhhhhhh! We don't always 'storyboard'. We don't know what we want until we see it. We want to figure it out in the editing process. We're just moving junk around until -something- looks cool. There's no plan! I'm doing music videos and I wanna be able to instantly try lots of clips at various points in the song to see what looks coolest.

How this is used in DAWs is for 'comping'... creating a final take of, say, a vocal performance, from several takes. You move the tracks up and down to audition which version of each phrase sounds best because, as with Premiere, the top-most track is the one that 'plays'. That's what I want to do for video... instantly be able to audition which clip looks best at different points.

So... where does one post a feature request? I got toooooooons of 'em!

---JC

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LEGEND ,
Aug 25, 2009 Aug 25, 2009

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In my years, I could probably have used this 3-4 times, though it's easy to see how others might use it much more.

Now, my stuff is not so "free form," and there is usually a script, even if just in my head, so my experimentation comes with my Effects and my Keyframes. Also, I do not do music videos, though many are edited to music, or the music is edited to them. I'm also a person, who grew up with cutting 1/4" audio tape on a splicing block, before I got my two 4-channel reel-to-reels, so I guess that I'm just happy to not have to do that anymore.

Each day, I still marvel at the joy and the power of doing work in an NLE. There were too many all-nighters over a Moviola, even the 8-plate unit that I got to work on sometimes. See, I remember when Bins were really "bins," and miles of film was hung from their racks. Oh, what I could have done with an NLE, way back when...

That Feature Request form is a good thing. I would urge all, who could use this feature, to post a request. Do not know how hard it would be for Adobe to add it, but they never will, unless they know that users could really use it.

Good luck,

Hunt

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 25, 2009 Aug 25, 2009

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Where is the feature request form?

---JC

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LEGEND ,
Aug 25, 2009 Aug 25, 2009

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JC,

Sorry. I thought that I had posted it upthread. Here is the Feature Request link.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 18, 2019 Nov 18, 2019

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I agree it would be very handy to say grab a track header and drag or "nudge" it up or down. And this should be possible. The best (and simplest) UserVoice request for this I've seen is this one ... and yes, I've voted for it.

 

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/34734694-change-the-tracks-...

 

But your response can come across in some ways as condescending as that you see in Colin's post. It's a matter of perspective, isn't it?

 

And part of your response makes no sense to me ... why would you spend all the time moving a track the way you say is the only way possible in Premiere, when you can quickly select all on a track with the mouse, and then either drag it up/down with the mouse or use Alt-up/down to move that track up or down ... in a matter of seconds. ( I get we shouldn't have to ... but I also get doing what works now while asking for better UI.)

 

Given that with the Add Tracks dialog you can add tracks between current tracks, it takes a few seconds to add a new open track somewhere specific, select all on a currect track, and drag them there. Saying this can only be done in hours is a bit ... over board.

 

And all the audio work or video work done on a track stays with the track as you move it up or down ... why recreate it? I don't get that part.

 

Neil

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Explorer ,
Mar 16, 2020 Mar 16, 2020

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You should absolutely be able to move entire tracks on the video timeline up or down to re-arrange them. 

 

 

 

 

Alt/up-down on a newly created and renamed open track seems the best solution until the actual track rearrange feature is implemented. I'm still on 2017. 

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Explorer ,
May 14, 2020 May 14, 2020

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Neil, you are forgetting about TRACK based audio effects.  Perhaps you have never used track based audio processing, but only clip based.  It is true that clip based processing (i.e. dragging an audio effect directly onto a clip) will move with a clip, but track based effects (in track audio mixer at top of audio channel insert effect into an available effects slot with the drop down selector) WILL NOT follow the clip and furthermore, Premiere has no way to save effects presets or move/copy/paste audio effect inserted in the track effects slots.  For a single clip I think your way is best.  Put the audio effect on the clip and it goes with the clip easily to a new track.  What about 100 clips?  Isn't it easier to place an audio effect once on the track for those 100 clips.  What happens when you need to adjust the EQ/compression, etc.  Change it 100 times -- each clip, one at a time?  Or change it once on the audio track that those clips are on?  That's where the problem arises.  You've created the audio effect once on a track, not on the clips, but you now need to move the clips.  The existing or new track where you move the clips will not have that track based effect, and Premiere so lovingly does not provide a way to easily copy or move the effect from audio track to audio track.

 

You could speed up the per-clip method by using commands like remove attributes and paste attributes to apply or remove and re-apply all 100 clip effects in 1 go.  That may be a valid work-around to Adobe's broken implementation of track based audio effects.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 16, 2020 Mar 16, 2020

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Ahh ... 2017. I've still got that installed on my desktop. Even used it a month or so back to re-touch an old project. Heck, I've even got 2015.2 loaded still. As with that one, SpeedGrade (which I also still have installed) is usable via that wondrous Direct Link.

 

But I'm not even running back to SpeedGrade like I used to. The newer apps have more and better things, and are working well, including color correction.

 

What specific things are requiring you to stay in 2017? Hardware issues, what? Out of curiousity.

 

Neil

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New Here ,
Apr 16, 2020 Apr 16, 2020

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(it seems i can not delete an answer, hmm)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Apr 16, 2020 Apr 16, 2020

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Yes, a shortcoming of this forum software. We had that useful feature in the previous forum.

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Participant ,
May 14, 2020 May 14, 2020

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Blimey.

 

I posted the original question 11 years ago! People are still talking about it...

 

It's weird reading through the answers. I don't recognise myself. Who's that knowledgable articulate guy?

 

LOL

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 17, 2020 Jun 17, 2020

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I'm very late to this discussion but it seems like the feature is still not available.  I'm working on a choir video, 25 voices/faces and now that I've got everyone on a track and synced, it would be nice to start organizing track order by simply dragging tracks up or down...yes, the same can be done by dragging the videos from track to track but I wouldn't have to worry about loosing sync if I just was dragging the whole track.  Just my two cents on this.

 

Carl

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jun 17, 2020 Jun 17, 2020

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Use the track select forward/backward tool to move images from a track up or down.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 17, 2020 Jun 17, 2020

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Thank you.  A little fooling about and I can see that while holding shift I can click to select everything on a paticular track and, while still holding shift, I can then drag up or down without the clips moving in time.  Nice!

 

Thanks again.  It's been a very long time since I've worked with Premiere.  Lots to learn 🙂

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Participant ,
Aug 29, 2020 Aug 29, 2020

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I said it 11 years ago, but it bears repeating - if the cpability is there then folks will find a use for it.

And anyone coming from a DAW background will use it straight away.

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