Premiere Pro CC 2017 lag

[jacka33804176]

Since i have updated to the Premiere Pro CC 2017 update, the whole software is laggy, the preview is on the lowest possible quality and is impossible to edit with as it lags so bad. And rendering previews takes about 5 times longer too. The software was completely fine before the update and had no issue's. Thanks

[R Neil Haugen]

Eric Bowens, of ADK, builds high-end machines heavily for the fx/colorist crowd, the Ae & Resolve group. When a colorist says he wants a machine built to handle 4k long-GOP natively, he wants to know ... why. That media form is great for  getting a lot of data on a memory card quickly. It's horrific to try and build a rig with the right cores/threads & RAM subsytem tuned properly to actually play that back smoothly.

And he can do it ... but the machine totally rigged for long-GOP won't be as good with intraframe as it would if he'd built it for that, as the demands on the hardware are so different. So I've heard him talk that the option is: do you want the best operation with DNxHD/R (his recommendation for processing codecs), ProRes, and the various log formats ... or, the best operation with long-GOP. Take your pick, one or the other.

Yes, I do understand the frustration that we think we should be able to get a machine that handles everything with ease. Eric says ... we can't. Especially if you want heavy effects and "thick" sequences with perhaps many video & audio tracks. Or have a lot of colorist or f/x work. But if Resolve works better for someone ... hey, it's a business. We have to go where we get stuff done.

One of the biggest problems we face with PrPro is the Lumetri 'engine' isn't particularly built for speed of operations. Either for using it, or playing back a clip with multiple layers of Lumetri on it. It's more a simple clip modification tool than a grading tool.

I can get around the typically slow speed of applying Lumetri for the first "instance" per layer, or each instance after ... my Elements panel is slick at working the Lumetri controls, but of  course ... it only works with the "last" Lumetri instance on a clip, as that's the only one that will use the standard Lumetri UI. "Earlier" Lumetri on a clip have to be controlled via mouse with the Effects Control Panel, not a hot solution.

To get as much done as I want with a clip, it often takes multiple layers of Lumetri ... every one adding a big hit to performance. Back when SpeedGrade was still in Direct Link, I could do MANY layers of primaries, secondaries, LUTs & Looks ... and back in PrPro, get pristine playback. Which is why I still use an app made by a SpeedGrade user from Austria to auto-mod a PrPro prproj project file for using in SpeedGrade 2015.1 as if on Direct Link ... then save the work, and go back through Pat's app so that the file is a 2017 file again. (That's easy to find in the SpeedGrade forum.)

Doing real hefty grading and getting it to look good (without artifacts) seems to take building up via small subtle things ... layers of small overlapping modifications that result in something that still looks "real" somehow but might be well off from "neutral". I can get there eventually via Lumetri ... but it's not 'optimal'.

And the whole "round trip" thing PrPro/Resolve takes extra time and for a small shop like me, that's ... not good. So I even understand a decision to switch to Resolve for everything ... BIG time saver if you need Resolve's colorist capabilities. And don't need the editing things that PrPro can do that Resolve still can't. "R" has come a long way in the editing panel, but I'm still more comfortable with PrPro.

Neil

[stephenh71804362]

Hi Neil,

The 'eternal' complaints of people not getting what they expect from their software... 

In our business we make long form documentary films. Over  the years of using FCP7 Avid and now Premiere Pro we have encountered many periods where the 'performance' of our systems has left me scratching my head ... why? After spending hours researching and $$'s upgrading and building up a typically 'grunty' systems are we still being plagued by these performance issues...

I will pass on a bit of sage advice from a salesman at the retailer that sells us our equipment....

'99.9 times out of a 100 there is a snag somewhere in the chain  - of preferences - corrupted workspaces after upgrade - hardware tx speeds - corrupted project files - ONE! corrupted jpeg - the list goes on and on and on...

I have had to eat humble pie time and time again when I have had professional troubleshooting done by adobe/apple/avid technicians usually by remote access to my machine, solve these horrible nagging creative roadblocks.

The one and ONLY time that I was actually RIGHT was the recent data loss associated with the PP 2017 upgrade for which Adobe acquitted themselves brilliantly albeit after some fairly aggressive nudging from the many users on this forum that had lost data.

I guess my point here is - if you have a typically recent and fast machine/raids etc PC or MAC ...then it is more often than not something relating to the operators and their particular systems and not the software engineers...

Touch wood  

We have three longform films in our editing facility at the present time ... all with big long heavily populated timelines with 4K, titles, animated HD clips, etc etc

and premiere pro is running smooth as silk... having said that we do not load up the CPU/GPU un-necessarily with a lot of Lumetri processing etc and our broadcaster roughcut screenings are usually prefaced by 'this is mostly ungraded 'flat' log footage.... most of them are fine with that nowadays.

We then output files for color and sound post either here on Resolve or depending on budget to another facility...

I do get a bit annoyed at people that blame the tools - I used to be one of them and it is the easiest first response to a problem but not always the right one...

[Dara_O_Neill]

I suppose I agree with both of you, however at the turn of the year a PP update corrupted all my project files with no fix, I and many others spent many months waiting for an update and reconstructing all the projects. This knocked my confidence in the due diligence being performed by Adobe. This could have some baring on the extent of my frustration now.

However while I suppose to agree with you I also just spent two days trying to troubleshoot the laggy issue and got nowhere. I only opened Resolve to check if it was a hardware issue as was suggested as the fix here. "Buy a large SSD and copy you're entire project to it."

So for the last 24hrs I've been using Resolve and quite astonished at the power of it's colouring panel, fx and smooth operation. And stability of playback no matter what I throw at it, only lagging when I added heavy denoising to the end of a long node chain on a 4k drone shot. Still only slightly and on full resolution.

Maybe I could spend another few days troubleshooting but I need to work. I need PP to allow me to review 4k footage without bouncing to proxy and still lagging. Because for my own sanity I know  it shouldn't be a big ask. Maybe I'll find major issues somewhere along the chain with Resolve and then I can revisit Adobe and see where they're at but right now I'd rather spend my time learning a new powerful piece of software and actually working on my creative projects instead of acting as a beta tester for Adobe on an ongoing basis.

[R Neil Haugen]

It's always fascinating to me to see the way the various apps work very differently even at times on what seem to be nearly identical machines. Some rigs handle Resolve well and for others, it's a slog. Some work slicker than frosted flakes with PrPro and the new proxy process ... and others, it doesn't seem to help at all.

I know Bill Gehrke and Jeff Pulera (Safeharbor11, also a machine builder) both stress "tuning" a computer by getting rid of a ton of other typically running processes and for a number of people who've been on here with issues, that has made a massive change in the operation of PrPro. For others ... not so much.

Quoting the "king of Siam" from a musical ... "Is puzzlement."

And yes, at the end of a couple days or so ... we've all got to be working. With whatever just gets the job ​done​.

I would also note that with the new head of "Digital Editing" ... including directly of course, PrPro ... for Adobe, there have been some changes in how the program but more importantly, the user base ... is viewed internally by "Adobe". For just having a couple comments in a thread about the recent issue where PrPro deleted tons of files of people's major assets, I got personal emails from both Patrick Palmer (head of Digi Editing/PrPro) and some person in Adobe's financial section it seemed, wanting to know 1) the extent of the damage I'd suffered and 2) anything that I could use in help or expected from them to clear the issue up.

I had no damage needing fixing ... but was rather cheered by the outreach made. I've not seen that before. Yea, there's been a couple things that could politely be called "poor choices" released recently, but ... perhaps we'll see some more changes.

Neil

[Dara_O_Neill]

I had a troubleshooting session with Adobe today and they said the problem wasn't my hardware but was how PP calculates certain files and fx. They said if you reverse speed on certain file types and / or add more than one effect to a clip PP could miscalculate that and start to lag. They recommended I render every clip that has reverse speed and / or with more than one effect on it.

That was their final word on the matter.

Dark ages.

[R Neil Haugen]

Ahh ... yes, reversed clips are having some issues when combined with other things ... that's not the shining part of PrPro.

What is the media you're using? If you're using say a ProRes, DNxHR/R, or other intraframe codec and having this much issue, that's one thing. If it's the H.264 and mov from some of the DLSR's & drones ... the really ​long​-GOP media ... that stuff is just heck on a computer. 4k 8- or 10-bit media running up to 30 or more p/b frames (not a frame, just a data-set of  "changed" pixels) between the complete but heavily compressed I frames ... even on the incredibly high-end rigs built for my colorist friends ...

Resolve does some things "easier" on some computers, but of course, lacks many of the capabilities of  PrPro, actually including the full codec set. And it's not particularly "sweet" in operation on many other computers, as I've noted ... no clue why.

But whatever gets your work done ...

Neil

[Dara_O_Neill]

Reversed clips weren't combined with anything by the way, only reversed. Yes, it's DJI drone footage. The other lag issues were with ProRes files with displacement, channel mixing and lumetri fx... it's all still frustrating that these require renders for playback.

I don't think it's fair to anyone to suggest only Resolve lacks capabilities of PrPro and not vice versa. I just spent the last few days working with Resolve and it's incredibly fast and stable and no such problems handling any of the files or footage I threw at it, reversed, added multiple fx, zero issues. Also, as we all probably already know, the grading and color tools are incredible. I haven't dug too deep into the other fx but I didn't have to go far to find some very powerful and useful fx built into Resolve that PrPro does not have.

p.s. the computer I'm using was built to best specifications for PrPro and AfterEffects.

[R Neil Haugen]

Not at all being critical of Resolve ... just that it is still primarily a grading app with some rather nice (so far) editing capabilities added in. It doesn't have near the depth of effects for editing available in PrPro ... as PrPro doesn't have the grading capabilities of Resolve. There's a ton to like about it, and of course ... I do work with it some.

I've been rather critical of the decision to drop the "Direct Link" to SpeedGrade, though I do understand that Sg was going to need a complete ground-up rebuild. Not that they took my advice, note ...

With that connection with SpeedGrade one could edit & grade in a rather slick manner. Doing an EDL or XML and round-trip conforming and all is a pain and can consume hours with some projects, so the attraction that Resolve offers to me of decent editing and direct to grading is rather attractive.

If your rig is running Resolve that well, I'm wondering how well it was "tuned" for PrPro. Some of the people helping on the Hardware forum have been very good at suggesting how to work the BIOS and running-processes allowed in a PC to get vastly better performance out of some computers. Took some that had been performing poorly to doing pretty darn well.

And there are two things else here: in his testing, Bill Gehrke (THE expert on these things) has found that the last build of PrPro is somehow far more compatible with 3rd generation SSD's than even a fast RAID 0 array, so the long-time recommendation for best PrPro performance by using a fast large hardware stripped RAID 0 array has been replaced by the suggestion to use spinners for long-term storage, and new SSD's for processing/working drives.

The other ... while myself and many others have had very good performance without lag with the newest version of PrPro, some have clearly had performance issues. I don't have a clue why, although again Bill and Jeff Pulera (Safeharbor11), who also works for a  firm that builds high-end post-production rigs and has all the hardware/software parts you could think of, have worked with some users to get improved performance.

For me, 2017 has been both more stable and a bit faster with multiple Lumetri than the 10.x builds of 2015.3/4. And that one, for me, was pretty stable. Microsoft just threw a curve at me though, as the newest OS update "Creator" has scrambled using most of my Cineform presets in mov for some reason for me. I can still access Cine through the Qt format, but I was using it 'direct' from the Format box. Might need to modify my presets. Not that big a deal.

But really, what works for you works for you. We all have work to get done.

Neil

[Dara_O_Neill]

Nice one Neil, I hear you. This computer was built for PrPro but possibly not "tuned" for it... who do I speak to about these BIOS?

[R Neil Haugen]

Put a post on the Hardware forum, asking about tuning a rig for PrPro. Then in the post, to "ping" someone, use the @ sign right in front of (without a space before) a user name ... I'd suggest

Bill_Gehrke

and

safeharbor11

It should give you an icon option for that user, and click on that ... it then sends a note to their inbox they've been mentioned in a post.

Neil

https://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/hardware_forum

[Dirgenator]

Same problem here,

The user interface in PrP CC 2017 is laggy AF. Dragging and reorganizing my pannels across multiple monitors (or even a single monitor) is nearly impossible, with clitchy delays and weird artifacts. Additional, video preview starts stuttering after just 20 seconds of smooth playback...... even on 1/2 quality!!!

To be very clear this is absolutely an issue with the current version that ADOBE NEEDS TO FIX NOW! I just tested the project file in PrP CC 2014 10 minutes ago on the same machine. Interface and playback are buttery smooth even on FULL preview quality.

PC Specs: i7, 32GB Ram, 3TB of m.2 SSD drives in Raid 0, and in case that wasn't insane enough on a laptop, dual GTX 965m GPUs in SLI. No recent windows updates, no recent GPU updates (GPU acceleration is enabled in settings). And as I said, all working butter smooth in the 2014 version... so this really needs to get fixed right now or I'll have my $600 back!

NOTE: A friend just installed PrP CC 2017 on a top spec Dell XPS 15 (highest end model) and is having the EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS as me, so this is for SURE a big issue that needs fixing.

[R Neil Haugen]

File that bug report ... they don't respond, but the reports are distributed in some tabulated form to the team managers and the upper types who decide budgets ... very important that this gets filed.

Neil

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

[Alexey1979]

I had exactly the same problem, and I found that it can be solved by uncheking the option "Sequence - Selection follows playhead". This option is returned after the program is restarted, so you have to remove it again. It helped me personally and the lags in the multicam editing were gone. I think so (but ctrl+s forever )

[Kevin-Monahan · Accepted solution]

Hi JackA,

Since i have updated to the Premiere Pro CC 2017 update, the whole software is laggy, the preview is on the lowest possible quality and is impossible to edit with as it lags so bad. And rendering previews takes about 5 times longer too. The software was completely fine before the update and had no issue's. Thanks

You have not returned to this thread or the forums at all in several months, so we don't know if you ever solved this issue or not. In the interim, since the post has not been marked as correct, it has become a place for all performance related issues to be discussed and resolutions are difficult to find.

I will place some solutions for this issue that have helped most people and mark that as correct until you return with a different solution. I think this will be more helpful to those looking for solutions.

Here are some solutions to lagging or stuttery video, even if the Playback Resolution is at the lowest setting and the same footage worked fine in previous versions.

1. Successive versions of Premiere Pro have greater system requirements. If you don't update your hardware or replace your computer periodically, you may experience performance issues.
2. The media you are using may be highly compressed (especially H.264 at large frame sizes), therefore, difficult to edit with. It might be a lot easier to transcode or use the proxy workflow for this footage.
3. Use a separate high-speed drive to play media from, not the internal drive running the OS.
4. Make sure that you have updated to the latest GPU drivers for your computer. Mac users can update to the latest version of OS X recommended in system requirements.
5. Premiere Pro software issues:
   • Some have reported better playback performance:
     • with Lumetri Scopes closed
     • by avoiding LUTs which were applied in previous versions of Premiere Pro
     • by avoiding workspaces from previous versions of Premiere Pro
     • by using a single monitor instead of multiple monitors
     • after uninstalling and reinstalling Premiere Pro
     • after deleting media cache files
     • by choosing Preferences > Playback and ensuring Video Device is set to "Adobe DV"
     • by choosing Sequence Settings and disabling "Composite in Linear Color."
     • by disabling Composite Preview During Trim in Timeline Display Settings (Timeline Wrench/Spanner icon)
     • with new projects rather than updated ones. You can import older projects into newer ones for better results.
     • by disabling Sequence > Selection Follows Playhead
     • by reducing the number of standard effects
     • by reducing the number of GPU intensive effects, like the Lumetri Color effect and Warp Stabilizer
     • by removing oversized still images and replacing them with adequately resized ones more suitable for their sequence
     • by enabling Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration in File > Project Settings
     • by rendering any clips which contain a negative value for the speed
     • by rendering previews for any sections which contain effects that can't be handled natively by the CPU and GPU

If you have an underpowered computer or laptop, these tips on this video may help:

Again, if you would like to return with a correct answer, JackA, do let us know.

Others here should create their own thread. Any new threads are subject to being branched and moved.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Vid Headz]

On my machine:

CPU: Intel i7-4790K 4.00GHz (Quadcore)

RAM: 32 GB

Boot Drive: Samsung 1tb SSD - I load my clips that I edit on the same drive

Platform: Win 10 64bit

GPU: MSI Geforce GTX Nvidia 980Ti

Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC Mate MS-7850

I have been trying to run multicam with 3 1080p clips and it glitches after about 15 seconds of playback, with 2015 CC I did not have this problem. My resources:

CPU runs at 40%

Memory Runs at 8.3GB out of 32gb

Boot Drive runs at 3 % capacity

I can not for the life of me see where the bottle neck is at.  I was trying to edit 4K and it was giving me trouble so I transcoded the files down to 1080p and I'm still having trouble.  Can anyone give me a idea as to what i am missing?

I have read some the suggestions and nothing seems to make any difference.

*I have 3 monitors for a surround display and I disconnected two of them and rebooted - No Change

*I do not have any luts applied

*I uninstalled Premiere and reinstalled it back  - No Change

*I turned off the Scopes - No Change

*I Deleted Cache - No Change

*Preferences > Playback and ensuring Video Device is set to "Adobe DV - No Change

*Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration in File > Project Settings - (Was Already selected) No Change

*Sequence Settings and disabling "Composite in Linear Color." - No Change
*Preferences > Playback and ensuring Video Device is set to "Adobe DV" - No Change

**Didn't Undrstand this one - by disabling Composite Preview During Trim in Timeline Display Settings (Timeline Wrench/Spanner icon)

[R Neil Haugen]

I would highly recommend running Bill Gehrke​ 's systematized project, which will give via the included monitoring apps detailed and precise data for each of your subsytems being maxed out by various parts of the project file as it's exported. Comparing the data to thousands of other computers gives a very good picture of how your gear performs.

http://ppbm8.com/index.html

Currently, his recommendations for PrPro 2017 are to run your OS & program files on a good internal SSD, and use an m.2 style 3rd generation SSD drive like the Samsung 950 Pro or EVO drives for all media/project files. Which is very different than the previous versions, which he recommended using a striped RAID-0 array for project & media & cache files.

At any rate, run the ppbm project, get the data ... and you'll know how well your hardware is doing, and how much of any problem is installation/setup and/or computer tuning.

Neil

[Vid Headz]

I downloaded the 1gb file and uncompressed it.  I see ithas some PP projects in it, but I'm not sure what to do with it.  I opened PP and imported PPBM11 but I'm not sure how to get the information of the performance.  I'm new to bench marking and could use some advice.

[Bill_Gehrke]

It is self instructing, when you opened the project the first frame of the timeline gives you the instructions like this  (actually this was after #2 below so I could the larger image as in the Program window the print was small)  also it is in English only. 

[FrankG72]

I am having somewhat similar issues, have tied all these troubleshoots, but none seems to help.

My issue is not a playback one (media play back is perfect), but the software itself become slow to respond as sequences get longer/more complex, particularly when the sequence is zoomed out. This is a couple of seconds lag with every button press (w/ beach ball of death).

I have tried simplifying the sequence, however this produces only scaled performance improvement. i.e commensurate to simplification. Problem is "resolved" by zooming sequence in, but then I can't overview the entire work.

As I am cutting a feature, this is a definite problem, and I have not encountered this issue with previous releases on older hardware.

Any advice on how to solve this issue greatly appreciated.

Attached is a screen grab of sequence for reference. Media is 24P 2K ProRez HQ.

Machine is MacPro 3.5Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5, 32Gb RAM, 2x AMD FirePro D700, using internal SSD for software/external TB2 5 Bay RAID for media. External AJA T-TAP for playback.

THINGS TRIED;

Cleaning caches, turning off ext video playback, resetting workspaces, turning off extra panels, using single monitor, re-installing software.

[Range_]

Major playback issues with Premiere CC 2017! I just ran the same footage through CC 2016 and it worked like butter. The new build has  issues, don't care what they say about any settings this is a software problem. I tried all the suggestions, I'm running a powerful machine with GTX 980 Ti and it couldn't even let me edit ProRes 422 1080's without pulling my hair out. Very thankful that subscribers can still use previous builds right now. That fixed everything in my case.

[R Neil Haugen]

Glad the earlier build works. As guru Bill Gerhke has noted, 2017 changed things in many ways. It clearly prefers the newer blazing fast 3rd gen m.2 drives and such over spinning discs. So much so he no longer recommends the multi disc spinning RAID 0 arrays

Instead he recommends a decent size and speed system SSD, an m.2 SSD for project files and PrPro's working files, and other fast SSD's as needed for media working drives, relegating the big spinners to long term storage.

For me, on a 6-core i7 with 1060GTX/6Gb and 32Gb RAM, I get pretty decent performance. Some just don't. And for others it screams. Go figure.

As to previous CC builds, one isn t just "allowed currently" to use them, but highly encouraged to do so. Product Support Manager Kevin Monahan has many times referred to his Best Practices for editors including keeping all projects to completion in the build they started on if at all possible. And if they're bought back later for rework, download that version to work them in if you don't have it installed.

You can have one version of each build series installed at the same time. For me, this build is good enough it's the first time since CC came out I only have one build installed, the 2017.

For example,  at one point I had 2014, 2015.2 and 2015.4 working.

2017: 11.x builds

2015.3/4: 10.x builds

2015.1/2: 9.x builds

2014: 8.x builds

Original CC:7.x builds

CS6: 6 x builds.

Neil

[FrankG72]

Get Adobe support to remotely access your machine, as it seems they know some tricks that fixed things - at least in my case, and albeit temporarily, but they did fix it - only problem being they weren't really sure what they had done that fixed the issue & subsequently I started getting laggy playback, trashed my prefs and voila - now I'm back to major lag again. I guess I have to get support to take control of my machine again. Once thing I can tell you though, is that this is a pretty pathetic outcome, and it does mean I will be jumping ship from Premiere. 20 years of editing and I have never encountered this sort of trouble with editing software.

[FrankG72]

Actually I have just figured out my issue is being caused by duplicate frame detection being turned on in timeline settings. Turned it off, no problem. Lame.

[timvondrell]

Have had this problem off and on.  Terrible today. Spent hours cleaning off HD, experimenting with settings....even though I’m doing the same tmwork on the same machine that has been fairy trouble free for the last year or so.  What’s different ?  Hmm. Maybe a PPro upgrade

Riddle me this, official Adobe representative....If and “upgrade“ to software creates the need for bigger better beefier hardware, is this not actually a downgrade?  A move backwards.  Hear me out. I understand if a huge upgrade tona software enables one to do things they’ve only dreamed of doing before, this could indeed create a need for a hardware upgrade.  But what if a user doesn’t need that latest greatest whatever?  Shouldnt an upgrade to software allow it to operate more  efficiently!?  Shouldn’t an actual upgrade to a piece of software allow it to work on a less powerful computer then and had if you’re not expecting it to do anything new and great?!    I would certainly think so.    Again if you’re doing something new and awesome that you was never able to be done with a piece of software before… Certainly more processing power would be necessary. But why on earth wouldn’t upgrade to a piece of software require a beef your computer to do the same type of stuff, edit the same type of footage, the same stupid way, as we did last year the year before and the  before that?  Multi cam in premiere Pro has always always been buggy. Why can’t you guys just fix the damn thing?

[dutchy_on_a_bike]

It's definitely a software issue. I am trying to play a 1080/50p .mxf (Sony FS5 50Mbps) file in the source monitor, and Premiere even can’t manage that, without dropping hundreds of frames in a 30second clip. I understand that Long GOP is not great for editing but surley the source monitor should be able to play the clip. I’m using a 16 core Threadripper, GTX 1080ti 11GB, 64GB RAM, M.2 Boot, M.2 Scratch, SSD Project files, WD Black HDDs. My ONLY workaround it convert the vision to Cineform or ProRes, then play back is smooth. What is going on? I have had this new PC for 5 months and Premiere can not play Long GOP .mxf. Yet, every other piece of software plays the vision smoothly. Mark