RENDER PROBLEM - AME and Premiere Pro CC causing random horizontal lines on H.264 Renders

[JesseSchluntz]

I just got the new mac pro with freshly installed, up to date software, so of course something isn't working right...

When exporting batches of H.264s from Premiere Pro CC using AME, I get random horizontal lines on screen for most videos. (see below image for a clear example of one of these random horizontal bugs. the line below the logo is the issue)

Tried restarting the app a few times, which gave me a clean render here and there, but mostly the issue persists and it's taking me forever to produce clean renders. I notice this problem less when exporting straight from the timeline in Premiere Pro, but alas it still happens.

This random issue is catastrophic for my workflow. Help?!

[Text formatting corrected.  Please type your posts directly into the forums, as copy/paste often leaves unwanted code throughout.]

Message was edited by: Jim Simon

[cliffp3]

Looks like my trash can is back to being more than a trashcan. Both A&B cards were replaced at no charge. I performed several exports from premiere using Mercury engine with no horizontal line issue. I'm going to queue up a list to export over night to see how it functions when the machine warms up a bit. But so far, all seems good.

-cp

[R Neil Haugen]

NIce to hear that this apparently OEM problem is fixed. And you're working ... with yes, something other than a very expensive small-boat anchor.

Neil

[thevideoguru]

What did you have to tell Apple to get these replaced? Once they were replaced was your machine screamin' fast? I'm having terrible lag issues.

[cliffp3]

I initially spoke with someone on apple chat. I described the horizontal  line issue, uploaded some stills, and set up an appointment at local apple store. When I took machine in, I showed them the problem and they said they would replace them. I did reference a couple articles I had read about card issues in 2013 Macs, but not much else. It seemed to me that they knew of the issue and had already made up their mind to replace them. I left the machine and the cards were replaced in about 4 days i think.

As for the speed/lag. I have always found premiere a bit laggy -- particularly in the timeline -- moving clips around, etc. It's clunky to me. It remains that way. However, before the cards were replaced I couldn't use the Mercury Engine to render -- always lots of noise, horizontal lines and other artifacts present in renders. The software only option was the my only option -- sometimes renders would actually work without the problem occurring. With the new cards I can use the Mercury Engine to render, and it is a somewhat faster than the software only option. If I had to put a number on it without doing some tests, I would say renders are 15 - 20% faster.

Hope this helps.

-cp

[Jeff_Dilullo]

We also begun to have the dreaded render glitches with our 3.5 GHz 6-Core, D700 2013 Mac Pro and Premiere Pro CC 2015.2, .5 and CC 2017.  The glitches began creeping in once we started using 4k footage from our Sony Fs5 (XAVC-L 100 MB). The glitches occurred while rendering to 1080p30 ProRes 422 via the OpenCL renderer.  "Software Only" rendering was just fine but excruciatingly long.  On a side note, while rendering via OpenCL the graphic cards were consistently hitting 180 degrees Fahrenheit. During these renders the Mac Pro's fan never kicked above 800 or 900 rpm's  Interestingly, FCPX could render with zero issues and during these renders the Mac Pro's fan would max out. Perhaps FCPX is talking to the the Mac Pro fan controller in a more efficient or direct manner than Pr. 

We were able to connect with a sympathetic apple technician through institutional Apple Care. After 2 hours on the phone doing a variety of trouble shooting, including a screen sharing session he was able to send out a tech to replace our A card (the one that doesn't have the SSD attached).  We were also told that our MacPro (mfg. in 2015) was know to have issues with the D700 cards.

The replacement of the (A) D700 card went fine, but once we started rendering in Premiere it went from sporadic glitches to glitches in every single render. These glitches continued even when we used iStats Menu to force the system fan to 1900 rpm's which kept our cards at 120 degree's Fahrenheit.

Our IT department contacted Apple Care again and this time they sent out a tech (the same guy) who replaced both the A and B board (two new cards). Now that both boards have been replaced the glitches have gone away.  We are also continuing to keep the fan speeds high to keep the temps below 120 degrees just in case.

Here's to hoping the issue is fully resolved.  I want to thank all the people who have commented on this thread. The information contained in this thread was instrumental in helping us in our communications with Apple.

Thanks,

Jeffrey Di Lullo

Director Visual Media

Parker Hill Church

[thevideoguru]

After Apple replaced your graphics cards did you notice a difference in speed/performance? I just had my MacPro in the shop to have this issue addressed. They replaced the I/O board but that made ZERO difference in Adobe Premiere with the lagging issues.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Jesse,

I will call Apple to discuss. The thing is, they replaced my cards over a year ago and no fix. So unless they can convince me that they can 100% fix the issue, I won't waste my time.

I would have them replace the cards once more if the issue did not subside or has returned, if you can. One of our broadcast clients had to have them replaced more than once.

Once replaced, please monitor cooling via applications that were mentioned earlier in the thread. I would also try to prevent any heat from the external environment from impacting the system. For example, make sure it is near an air conditioning vent, away from direct sunlight, in an area with adequate room for venting, etc.

Sorry that this has taken so much time and has caused so much frustration for you.

Regards,
Kevin

[kylec23872453]

Well folks, it's story time, but the moral of the story first - if you were proactive about dealing with issues with your mac pro like I was, apple likely replaced one of your graphics boards and will now refuse to replace your second graphics board, despite acknowledging that it takes a full replacement to fix the original issue.  Basically, you're SOL and they'll blame Adobe because they can't recreate the problem in any other software and their diagnostics say everything is OK.

So after two visits to the Apple store and being without my machine for 10 days, I'm back with no actual repairs, no solutions, and being told repeatedly that Adobe must be the issue.

During the first visit Apple acknowledged that there is a repair and replacement program for my model of Mac Pro, but said that unless they can recreate the issue during their diagnostic tests and exploration, they can't actually repair or swap anything.  They say they tested the machine intensely for upwards of 48 hours and still saw no problems, and told me there was nothing they could do.

The manager was nice enough to tell me that if I could recreate the problem at home, I could call apple support who could remote in and verify that there is an issue, and then they might be able to help.

So I did that.  And apple support sent me back to the apple store a second time with screenshots and an export in hand with the glitches present, and told me this would be enough to warrant fixing the machine. The tech took my screenshots, logged all my reported issues, and left me with a sense that finally something would be done.  Happy day, right?

I got a call three days later from that same tech, telling me that they'd run my machine through the same diagnostic process as the first time around, and lo and behold - no issues that they could see anywhere.  No pinched cables, no overheating, no glitches, so there's nothing they can do.  From their standpoint, it must be Adobe.  It has to be, right?  Because if their diagnostics can't find an issue, then it really doesn't exist, right?

Kevin-Monahan‌ - is there any way you can release publicly that adobe is pointing the finger at apple for this very specific issue?  I tried to relate the knowledge I've gained here through this forum, and at every step they pointed me back to more known issues with Adobe and assured me that though those look nothing like my issue, surely the fact that there are issues with Adobe is the clearest indicator that Apple is not at fault.  They're using your transparency against you.

[anton.ligaarden]

I just got my Mac Pro back, after the service company swapped out the D700s with a new pair. They told me they found out the D700s were defect, so I'm hoping now.

[JesseSchluntz]

I've begun a conversation with an Applecare senior advisor who will be communicating with me during the entire process. That's my recommended starting point. She confirmed the recall of defective Mac Pro machines. I asked her specifically what Apple was planning to do this time to actually fix the problem. She checked and said that I would most likely have my graphics cards replaced for a second time. I asked her to please find out who made the announcement and talk to that person to find out exactly what the fix was. She said she had no way of finding out. That's freaking crazy to someone like me, but she was so nice I let it slip. She told me that if this next repair yields nothing, she claims I will receive a new machine.

This just happened today when I rendered a client proof. I took screenshots and will be taking my machine in next week.

Here is what I predict will happen when I take it in by the way: I'll explain my issue to the Apple Store techs... again. I'll show them the bad render. They'll test my hardware for days and say "everything seems fine". Maybe they'll replace my cards again. If it happens again, I'll be back on the phone with my contact about a new machine if this issue persists (2 years so far).

Did I mention my last computer (Mac's last tower model pre-trash can) was replaced after multiple unexplained issues as well?

To be continued...

[Derjis]

Our nMP is still hanging in there, though just barely... It took 4 tries just to get it to boot up properly the other day. The "trashcan" nickname could not have turned out to be more accurate...

Thanks for the updates, everybody! If you guys have any success dealing with Apple, I might try to take ours in, as well; we've been running it software-only for ages now, saving long-form projects for weekend exports.

[libsimpso]

Hey Jesse,

I'm jealous to read you spoke with someone at Apple who acknowledged the recall of defective Mac Pro machines. I just hung up the phone after a pleasant, but fruitless call with Apple. The Senior Advisor I spoke to said there was NOT a recall or repair program currently in effect for MacPros. She mentioned an ongoing GPU program for MacBook Pros, but not the trash can.

I was basically informed that since I have the extended AppleCare warranty, and according to this individual no MacPro GPU recall currently exists, I should simply take my machine to the closest authorized service provider for repair under AppleCare. Seems simple enough? But like you JesseSchluntz

I am not confident that standard diagnostics will reveal any issues, and I will be simply handed the trash can back, no repairs made.

Any updates on your situation JesseSchluntz?  Do you have a name or reference number for the Apple advisor you spoke to that confirmed the recall?

[JesseSchluntz]

libsimpso‌ I will send you a private message with the senior advisor's contact info. I don't want to post it publicly and have her bombarded.

[jasonvp]

JesseSchluntz wrote:

I've begun a conversation with an Applecare senior advisor who will be communicating with me during the entire process.

I stopped following this thread about a year ago, but I do read it now and then to see if anything has progressed in a positive direction.  We had little glimpses of hope back when this first started by upgrading to the then current OS X, but I can see those hopes were mostly unfounded.

I'm going to offer up a different path, one that I've taken with much grimacing and reluctance:  it's time to let the Macs go.  I understand how involved folks are with the entire environment, and I can definitely sympathize with the massive disruption of production (filming, editing, cutting, etc) that a platform switch can be.  Please note that I'm not in any way, shape, or form trying to dismiss or down-play those difficulties in any way.

It's worth it.  I despise Windows.  I hate it with a blinding passion.  It's such a clumsy environment to plod around in, and for me specifically: the loss of the UNIX underpinnings is very difficult to get over.  But editing on it with Adobe's software (all of it, mind you) is just...

...better.  I hate that.  Epically.  But it's just the plain and painful truth.  Feed Premiere a decent nVidia card (or two, or three) and it hums happily along without any glitches.  Take the Core i7 processor that you purchased retail, lightly(!) overclock it, and you'll have enough CPU grunt to crush your Mac Pros.  And while I despise MS and their operating systems in general, the big bonus they have going for them is relative stability.  Windows is Windows.  Specially if you go all-in with Windows 10.  It's not going to have some massive overhaul half-way through your production cycle and goof you all up because Adobe's software is suddenly out of lock-step with it.  This seems to happen a bit too often with Cupertino's rapid update and upgrade cycle.

There are other benefits to moving to a Windows and nVidia production environment, specifically if your final output is an h.264 file (if not, this won't apply).  Some kind and enterprising sole wrote a Windows-only Premiere/AME plug-in that will tap the idle(!) h.264 hardware encoders on all newer nVidia cards, and rip off an export in half the time it would take with your CPU alone.  This isn't available on the Mac because of A)the lack of nVidia GPUs, and B)the fact that some of it requires MS' Visual C++.  Something to consider.

Again: I'm not trying to down-play the difficulty (or expense!!) in throwing away your Mac Pros in favor of PCs running Windows (I'd recommend Win10).  The great thing with Mac Pros is they hold their value so epically well; when I sold mine, I was easily able to afford the overhaul to my gaming rig into a gaming/editing rig, complete with 2(!) Titan X cards and a 5960X CPU with appropriate motherboard.

Good luck folks.  I will continue to use my Mac laptops for email, browsing, and other such stuff.  But when it comes to editing, it's 100% Windows now.  Apple dropped the ball here with the hardware and to an extent their constantly changing software.  No bueno, IMHO.

[EditorPete]

I too had issues with an earlier MacPro. Fortunately for me, my company was able to purchase another one and so far, so good. I believe there were a good batch of em (MacPros) coming off the assembly line that were bad in some way or form. I think that explains why there is such a discrepancy between some people being ok and some not. I think it has to do with the cooling or non cooling of the system and once it over heats, somewhere in the core of the system, something goes array. The first thing I did when I got my new Mac Pro was install TG Pro  https://www.tunabellysoftware.com/tgpro/  I hear the fans getting kicked up a lot more than my old Mac Pro,  by setting this app up to do the controlling of the cooling. Just my 2 cents. I wish all of you luck in trying to figure out what is causing your issues.

In the back of my brain, I am always aware that this issue might come back, since there is no apparent fix as of yet. But so far I am very pleased with Adobe and my Mac...It screams thorough renders and exports alike. Sometimes I can't believe my eyes!!

I'm using Primate today a matter of fact, and it is burning through my green screen keys with multiple garbage mattes and a custom Lumetri setting. The files I'm working with are ProRes at 3200x1800.

Pete

[RandomEntity]

Just got another Mac Pro cylinder last month. Right out of the box we had lines. Apple replaced the graphics cards in both. Still getting lines, not only in Premiere but in DaVinci Resolve renders as well. We're all out of ideas.

[jamesb4861177]

‌Jesse,

I know this thread is older. I just purchased(March 2016) a MacPro 6 core with dual D700 and I am having the same issues. Did you solve this. Please email me if you can.

[personal info deleted by mod, forum policy]

I am beyond frustrated...

JIm Bridges

[jamesb4861177]

‌

[JesseSchluntz]

‌@jamesb4861177 I've been taxing premiere via AME with big renders for a few days since getting my computer back and so far, so good. Gonna wait a bit and see how it goes before further updates.

[jamesb4861177]

‌Jessie,

thanks for the response. How long was your computer gone? I'm about ready to cancel my lease and say f..u to Apple. I'm calling them tomorrow am...they should not be selling faulty products knowmind damn well there are issues. I'm going to try and stall my client for a few days until I get some answers. $5K is too much $$$ for this to happen...

[jamesb4861177]

Rendering out as ProRes, then rendering out via MPEG StreamClip seems to be a temporary fix....

I am getting a dual D500 as a replacement to see if this problem goes away...

[craigbentley]

jamesb, we're thinking of downgrading to D500s, can you update on us on whether you got yours yet, and if so, your results, or if not, what your time frame is?

Andreas, are your D500s still working fine?

Thanks!

Craig

[jamesb4861177]

‌hey Craig,

i got the D500 handdelivered by Apple on Tuesday. I have to say Apple has been great.

The problem was worse. I was on the phone with Adobe support(which was great) for 2 hours and they couldn't solve the problem. They did mention AMD has been giving them problem and they were working in a solution. I returned the computer yesterday...got out of my lease agreement and I am using my late 2012 quad core 32GB IMAC until tax time. I am going with a Puget Systems PC(Apple for 33 years, it isn't easy to do) but the computer is cheaper, faster and upgradable.

I am not giving up entirely on Apple, I imagine a new MacPro with thunderbolt 3 will be coming out soon. In the meantime clients are waiting and I can pay off a $4K computer in a few months.

Feel free to call or email me anytime.

[andreask8268577]

Hi Craig

Yes, everything works fine since three weeks, although performance is not so impressive on a 6-Core with just 16 GB RAM. Can't wait to get the replacement for our MacPro...

(I'm on OS X 10.10.4, Premiere 9.2.0 right know, since this machine had Yosemite preinstalled an I didn't upgrade yet)

Best

Andreas

[andreask8268577]

Hi Craig

Today I got my new MacPro (3GHz 8-Core, 64 RAM, D700). I've tested during the whole day and to my surprise, it works fine so far.

Here the exact specifications of the GPU's:

AMD FirePro D700:

  Chipsatz-Modell: AMD FirePro D700

  Typ: GPU

  Bus: PCIe

  Steckplatz: Slot-1

  PCIe-Lane-Breite: x16

  VRAM (gesamt): 6144 MB

  Hersteller: ATI (0x1002)

  Geräte-ID: 0x6798

  Versions-ID: 0x0000

  ROM-Version: 113-C3861J-687

  gMux-Version: 4.0.11 [3.2.8]

  EFI-Treiberversion: 01.00.687

Best

Andreas