Adobe after effects and AME extremely slow render

[Eduard232954292cbu]

A 1-minute video takes 24 hours to render. Seriously! 

[Mylenium]

Render an intermediate file like ProRes directly from AE, then encode later. This is a known issue and being worked on.

Mylenium 

[nubnubbud]

AE's always getting new bugs. this is one of them. use something like prores because I guess we're not allowed to use h.264 because it's supposed to be beneath us, unlike apple blessed formats that can't be used outside of adobe or something.
AME and AE don't work well together, especially if both are open at once. That's basically opening up the project twice as I understand it. Just export from AE and go to sleep or encode using premiere like I do. whatever hole media encoder crawled out of, it needs to go back. Or rather, like I do... a little fusion action and the deliver page work wonders.

[JohnColombo]

Hi @Eduard232954292cbu,

Thanks for reporting this issue, sorry to see you're experiencing these long render times. What are your system specs? And what version of After Effects are you using?

If you're using After Effects 2023, you are now able to export H.264 directly from the Render Queue. If you can, please let us know if the render goes more quickly when rendering inside of After Effects.

Thanks for reporting this issue and for any further information you can provide, 

- John, After Effects Engineering Team 

[RyanScammell]

Same here.  I find AE 2023 struggles in ways that weren't issues in 2022 and 2021. Media Encoder too has similar issues -- crazy long renders sometimes, plus hangs/crashes mid queue -- all issues I hadn't had anywhere near to this degree in 2022 and before. For the last half of last year we continued working exclusively in 2021 because of these issues but now that we can't open 2023 projects in 2021 and the fact that I don't think you can even install 2021 anymore, I feel like I'm being forced into using 2023.   While I appreciate the new track matte system and the colored keyframes, the UX improvements shouldn't be at the expense of the most important thing the program needs to do, which is to render.

Windows 10

i9-11900H @ 2.5Ghz

32GB ram

Nvidia RTX 3080 Laptop

but this is happening across my entire team (laptops, desktops, all with some variety of specs -- though for reference all use Nvidia cards).

[RyanScammell]

While I appreciate that multi-frame rendering in AE is presumably faster (I have yet to confirm) part of the benefit of AME is being able to keep working in AE while something is rendering.  So the solution of just saying "hey just render in AE" is only somewhat practical when you need to turn stuff around and be working and rendering at the same time. 

I get it's a big ask, and I'm not the one who has to code it, but could we not get multi-frame rendering in AME as well?

[Warren Heaton]

@RyanScammell 

AME uses MFR.

Adobe Media Encoder Export of AE Compositions using Multi-Frame Rendering Now Available

With or without MFR, rendering to an intermediate format (also called mezzanine format) is going to be fastest as compression is only within each frame (not between frames).  Then rendering to delivery formats will be quick and more reliable as the frames already exist for the intraframe encoding. 

It's also very important to make sure all third-party effects are MFR.

[RyanScammell]

@Warren Heaton 

Interesting...I didn't realize that AME was using Multi-Frame rendering, though it looks like only in the beta? If so, these slow downs folks are suggesting to solve by just rendering directly out of AE -- presumably shouldn't the two render at the same speed if both are using multiframe?

And just because I'm curious, if I render direct to a PNG sequence would that be faster or slower than a traditional intermediate codec like Pro Res 422?

None of this solves the hangs or crashes I've been having in AME or the seeming slower viewport rendering in AE 2023, but it's good for me to know anyway.

-Ryan

[Warren Heaton]

@RyanScammell 

That article is from June 2021, so its been in the release version since I believe October of that year.  So, if we're running 2022 and up, we're good,  We also need to make sure any third-party plugins, addons, or extensions are updated for MFR.  If you're getting lag in AE 2023 that you are not seeing in AE 2020 or 2021 on the same system, take a very close look at those things. 

 If rendering quickly is important (when is it not?), avoid PNGs.  It's almost ten times slower than TIF or Targa.  Only render a PNG Image Sequence if that is what is required for delivery. 

[Warren Heaton]

@nubnubbud

"use something like prores because I guess we're not allowed to use h.264 because it's supposed to be beneath us"

We want to use ProRes for all the reasons discussed in detail in the Apple ProRes White Paper.  It's accessible to anyone using Adobe After Effects and the other Adobe video applications under macOS and Windows.  With Davinci Resolve, it's accessible, but not completly on the Windows side.

"unlike apple blessed formats that can't be used outside of adobe or something."
ProRes can be used in After Effects, Premiere Pro, Media Encoder, Final Cut Pro, Compressor, Resolve, Proxy Generator, and Media Composer.  It's especially well suited to move between these applications as well.  H264, simply put, is not an intermediate format.  It's very much meant for delivery and is well suited for it.

"AME and AE don't work well together, especially if both are open at once. That's basically opening up the project twice as I understand it. Just export from AE"

• As long as they are the corresponding versions, yes, AME and AE work together.  This is set in After Effects under Preferences > Memory & Performance > Memory and in Media Encoder under Preferences > Memory > Memory.
  It is not the same as opening the project twice - well, not exactly.  It is opening a temporary copy of the project in AME that has the elements needed for the Comp that's being rendered.  Depending on how many Comps have been sent, there may be several.
• The default memory allocation can be used or we can change them in preferences for After Effects or Media Endocer.
• Opening two projects would very likely cause memory erros if the project was opened in After Effects 2023 and a copy opened in After Effects 2022 (after being saved down a version).  In this case, AE 2023 and AE 2022 are not sharing the Memory preference like corresponding verisons of AE and AME are. 

"and go to sleep or encode using premiere like I do."
Rendering over night is a good strategy.  Our choice in hardware is important.  An M1 Apple Silicon computer could take 9 hours to render a thirty second 2160p24 to ProRes that's very effects heavy while an M1 Max will render it in an hour and a half.  As such, we need to pick between the $1,500 computer or the $3,500 one based on how complex our animations are and how fast we'd like them to render.

"whatever hole media encoder crawled out of, it needs to go back."

Being able to render a Composition or export a Sequence while still working in After Effects or Premiere Pro was a long-time feature request from users.  There should of course be optimizations and bug fixes (as with any software) and it should also receive regular updates.  If we need better performance while Media Encoder is running, it's very much up to us to run it on hardware that allows for it.

"Or rather, like I do... a little fusion action and the deliver page work wonders."

The Deliver Page is well designed for quick access.  

[nubnubbud]

@Warren Heaton 

""unlike apple blessed formats that can't be used outside of adobe or something."
ProRes can be used in After Effects, Premiere Pro, Media Encoder, Final Cut Pro, Compressor, Resolve, Proxy Generator, and Media Composer."

So... adobe, adobe, adobe, adobe, apple, something I've never heeard of, an apple specific branch of something, adobe, and adobe. You know... those sound a lot like adobe and apple-blessed things. I'll just assume you didn't read.
It's so useful. oh man. An intermediate format is only useful WHEN MORE THAN ONE PROGRAM AND ONE OPERATING SYSTEM SUPPORT IT. I'm not angry at apple for using it. I LOVE the format. My entire contention is that APPLE CAN DECIDE, TOTALLY ARBITRARILY, IF I GET TO USE IT. 

What if PNG images were only available on linux? What if you could only render to H.264 in windows movie maker? This sort of gatekeeping an entire standard and extorting money from industries that can't stop using it is a huge systematic failure and exploitation from one of the most human and consumer rights violating companies in human history. There's a reason I need DNXHD, and not prores. because it works everywhere, unlike prores.

"H264, simply put, is not an intermediate format.  It's very much meant for delivery and is well suited for it."

Then why was it, as an output standard, removed from after effects delivery pipeline, whose SOLE PURPOSE IS TO PROVIDE A REQUESTED OUTPUT?

"It is not the same as opening the project twice - well, not exactly.  It is opening a temporary copy of the project in AME that has the elements needed for the Comp that's being rendered.  Depending on how many Comps have been sent, there may be several."

Oh, it's not opening two of one project, it's opening a copy of  ALL OF THEM. Yeah. so much better.

"Our choice in hardware is important.  An M1 Apple Silicon computer could take 9 hours to render a thirty second 2160p24 to ProRes that's very effects heavy while an M1 Max will render it in an hour and a half.  As such, we need to pick between the $1,500 computer or the $3,500 one"

and people wonder why VFX artists will throw apple computers off bridges. The only reason to use them is because other people are using them, or a program only works on them because someone wanted to abuse their users. I wouldn't call that a legitimate reason, either. just a reason. like shooting your foot to empty a magazine. it sure is a reason.

"If we need better performance while Media Encoder is running, it's very much up to us to run it on hardware that allows for it."

Okay, just let me call up NASA, they have some good computers. Oh wait. adobe programs don't get faster due to higher specs, https://youtu.be/QH5SPOnp7Sg?t=414 and that information is publicly abailable. I didn't even have to search for more than one video. just "premiere 4090 benchmark" and find the graph because I know what it is. It doesn't matter how good computers get if the programs ARE ABSOLUTE TRASH AT USING ANY HARDWARE WHATSOEVER.

[RyanScammell]

Very helpful @Warren Heaton. Thank you for the detailed response.

-Ryan