BUG. Selecting next layer up (Ctrl+UpArrow) DOES NOT UPDATE INFO PANEL

[tristansummers]

Current behaviour:

Manual selection with Mouse = displays layer Info in the Info Panel

(This is very cool)

Switching to the next layer above or below with a keyboard shortcut = Does not Update Info Panel.

Expected Behaviour:

When a layer is selected the Info panel always shows its information.

Why this matters:

Cycling through layers using keyboard shortcut and the info being displayed in the Info panel is a fast way of assessing and choosing layers, especially if they do not have meaningful names

Thanks

Tris

(P.S. when will keyboard shortcut moveing the timeline to Layer In and Out properly update the timeline marker? This has been a bug for a decade!)

When are you going to stop forcing me to tag and remove the title character limit!?

[tristansummers]

Latest version, latest OS, cross platform, latest drivers. 

[nishu_kush]

Thanks for reaching out, tristansummers.

Could you provide your system specifications (CPU, GPU, RAM, OS version)? I am able to reproduce the issue on my end. Thanks for reporting. I've filed a bug for investigation.

Thanks,
Nishu

[nishu_kush]

Changing the thread status to Investigating.

Best,

Nishu

[tristansummers]

Thanks. Another little quirk the devs missed.

If system specs were relevant, I woould have included them. I work freelance on many different machines, AMD, Intel, Apple, Nvidia etc. Most places keep their Adobe products up to date. I would always update OS, Adobe, Drivers etc. before reaching out. I don't think system specs would effect a UI bug

[David.Arbor]

Hi @tristansummers, Thank you for reporting the issue. I was easily able to repro it and will file a bug on our side. So while you are correct in this case that a driver or OS update are not causing this bug, that's not always the case. The challenge of troubleshooting is that we need as much information as possible from you to help us repro the issue.

GPU drivers can absolutely cause issues that are OS or platform-specific, and macOS vs Win can absolutely experience different UI issues, so please don't assume the info isn't important. Also, specifically right now, the latest macOS update could technically either be Tahoe or Sequoia. I bet you most people don't know that Tahoe just came out two days before you posted. 

As an in-house motion designer where I didn't work with other folks, I always kept up-to-date with my CC versions, but you might be surprised how many studios and organizations are one, two, or three major versions behind due to policies. A lot of people might still be on AE 2024 and have the latest version of that but not realize there's another major update. We don't know the state of anyone's setup, which is why we need to ask.

So we're not trying to kick the can down the court, we're trying to help you.

As for your other question about the In/Out KB shortcuts, can you please be more specific? What do you mean by "the Timeline marker?" Please be specific about which shortcut you're talking about—is it I/O to move to a layeer's in or out point, the bracket keys to move the start of the layer's in/out, or Opt+bracket keys to trim the in/out of a layer. A screen recording showing the issue would be great because I'm seeing expected behavior with all three of those shortcut sets.

Edit: I see that @nishu_kush already filed a bug. I added some notes to it.

Thanks,
- David, After Effects Engineering Team

[tristansummers]

Hello.Thanks. fully understand. I try not to use macs where possible. And I appreciatye having to stick to stable release, which is why I was instrumental in Adobe not immediately removing access to previous versions when you update!

When pressing I to go to layer Inpoint, (or O to go to Layer outpoint), often, but not always, the vertical line that extends from the Timeline Marker disappears. 

Toggling I and O to move to the end and back, makes it visible.

This has been a known bug for at eleast ten years, but it never used to come back at all.

What is interesting about both these behaviours is that communication triggers for the UI differ based on mouse or Keyboard navigation, rather than the final state.

[David.Arbor]

I see what you're saying. The Current Time Indicator (CTI) moves to the layer start/end point, but the Time Needle doesn't. I have seen this myself before, but haven't been able to consistently reproduce it. Without a clear repro case, it's very difficult to figure out what's going on.

Thanks,
- David, After Effects Engineering Team

[tristansummers]

Is it? From an engineering point of view you have no idea where to look to work out why?

I am not convinced by this stock answer.

I would think you could think, what is the code mechanism that draws that line? What could cause the UI to ignore that request?

For decades now using I and O to jump to the ends of a layer has not updated the vertical line. 

This is on macs, windows of every persuasion, so I doubt it is the hardware that is at fault.

[David.Arbor]

@tristansummers 

1. Yes, it absolutely can be difficult to figure out what's happening without a clear repro case. This is how software development works—if there's a bug, you need a clear repro case to see how the code is behaving under a debugger.
   
   
2. After Effects is incredibly complex and there are multiple code paths that actions can take. One example is hovering your mouse over the Comp panel. The Info panel will show you the RGB values of the pixel under your mouse. Those values will be different if your project is 8-, 16-, or 32-bpc. These values change yet again when you have Color Management enabled. What you see in the UI is often the end result of a very long chain of various decisions.
   
   
3. I'm not a developer, I'm a quality engineer, and my background is as a motion designer and video editor. I've been using After Effects for close to 20 years, and while I have incredibly deep knowledge of it, I couldn't tell you what code path something takes just by looking at the UI.
   
   
4. I'm not saying that some fixes can't be simple or obvious, but I'd ask you not to make assumptions or presume I'm giving a stock answer by trying to get a consistent repro case. All this is in service of getting a quality bug to developer for a fix.

To that end, this issue has been identified and fixed. It was included in the first public beta build of 26.0, which was released in October. If you download the latest public beta, you should see a fix for this issue as well a similar issue regarding mouse selection of layers. The latter was caught during the investigation and fix of your bug.

Thanks,
- David, After Effects Engineering Team

[tristansummers]

Thank you. No offense meant and I fully understand, and in over 25 years, that is the stock answer to the stock answer. My point is (and always has been) what COULD cause the issue rather than what IS CAUSING it. If my car brakes are slow, mechanics would say that it could be this or this, they don't usually ask for every component of the car. If I tell my doctor I am being sick, they don't have to vomit themselves to cure me! There must be a finite number of way a piece of information gets from keyboard to GPU. 

Good to know the original bug has been addressed. 

In my experience of software development for after effects, actual vs expected behaviour has been enough for the devs to diagnose most issues, at least until the next point release. 

[David.Arbor]

Yeah, I hear you, and you're correct that the feel of something is often a great place to start. But still, the best way to get a bug fixed is to have a completely reproducible case with a bug filed, and that's what I was trying to get.

Also, you'd be surprised at how many paths anything can take. So often, the way something looks or feels can be a red herring, and needless hours can be wasted on investigating the wrong thing. Even if there does appear to be a direct line from cause to effect, that path could still have to go through many different files because of what funcitons are called or run. Imagine trying to dig through a hugely complex AEP you inhereted from someone else that contains 1000 layers and you just want to fix one tiny glitch. You can almost certainly do it, but it's not going to be quick.

- David, After Effects Engineering Team

[tristansummers]

Thank you. I can see there is extra work going into supporting bug fixes and it is much appreciated.