Premiere doesn't export 10bit frames (they really are 8bit files)

[hurodal]

Hi,

I need to do some image analysis over extracted frames and I need to extract 10bits stills from 10bit footage.

I've shot the footage with a GH5 and recorded into the SD card (1080p, 4:2:2) and also on an Atomos Ninja V with ProRes.

I've loaded the .MOVs into Premiere, activated "maximum bith depth" and "maximum processing quality" into the sequence settings (I'm using the spanish version of premiere, so no sure of the exact names of this options in english) and I cannot get more than 8 bit neither if I load .MOVs from the GH5 nor ProRes from Ninja V.

To check this I've extracted a frame in TIFF and opened in Photoshop with no luck, it's just 8 bits (why not offering an option to choose between 8 or 16bit?). Then I extracted a DPX and its 16 bit but after saving in 16bit TIFF and analyzing it with a special software (called Histogrammar) it shows it's filled with just 256 different levels.

So unless there's another option hidden anywhere, this is clearly a bug.

[Ann Bens]

This is not a bug, but you can write a feature request.

FAQ: How Do I File a Bug Report or Write a Feature... - Adobe Support Community - 13362039

If doing so, please continue in this thread, so it will be transferred to the Ideas board.

[hurodal]

How do I know that this is not a bug?

Isn't it supposed when you import 10-bit footage and export a DPX file (which is supposed to offer 10-bit depth) that you expect a 10-bit image?

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it looks clearly like a bug. Actually I did the same in DaVinci and indeed exports a 10-bit image...

[Ann Bens]

Maybe I was wrong on this one.

Exported a dpx frame. Opened in Photoshop, saved is as a Tiff.

Media info tells me it is still 16 bit.

[hurodal]

Yes, you're right: the file is still 16bit but if you look into it, there are no more than 256 different levels. If this is a Log footage and you apply the corresponding LUT, it will cause posterization.
That's the bug.
Same procedure in Davinci and the exported TIFF indeed has 1024 different levels.

Regards

[hurodal]

Well, I think it's clear that this is a bug.

So, anyone from the develop team that can take a look at it?

[Ann Bens]

If you want this to be filed as a bug, you need to write a bug report

How do I write a bug report? - Adobe Support Community - 13361863

Continue here in this thread and will be moved to Bugs board.

[basil1891]

Recently I happen to read this detailed article about MRQ/MBD settings in Premiere Pro. I think it can be related: https://blog.frame.io/2021/06/07/premiere-pro-max-render-quality-max-bit-depth/

[R Neil Haugen]

No clue what you mean by "extracting" ... did you create an image capture within Premierre of that frame, or did you actually export to get the frame used?

Grabbing a frame from a sequence in Premiere is a very different operation than exporting from a sequence. And the frame grab process may not be set to work in high-bit data.

If you export, with both the sequence and the export having Max Bit Depth set, and the export option also ticked for "16-bpc", you should get full bit depth.

Neil

[hurodal]

Hmm, I thought I'm already in the Bugs board...

I had read the guidelines and already published this in the 'error' board (in the spanish version of the forum).

But If I did wrong, please help me to move this thread to the right place...

Regards,

[hurodal]

Neil, what I mean is to grab a frame with the button with a camera icon below the program and save it to DPX or TIFF.

I haven't exported a single frame with the Export function.

Having to export a sequence I feel very tedious for just one frame.

[Warren Heaton]

The Export Frame option (the camera icon at the bottom of the Project tab or Source tab) is slanted very heavily toward quickly exporting a reference frame.

JPEG, PNG, TIFF, and Targa should export at 8 bits per channel; DPX at 16 bits per channel; and EXP at 32 bits per channel.

For a full range of export options based on the chosen file format, we need to mark an In and an Out and then jump to the Export mode where there are options for the chosen graphics file format like a Compression pop-up menu for OpenEXR and a Depth pop-up menu for TIFF.  

For a 10-bit DPX still image file: mark an In and an Out in the Source tab, then jump to the Export mode where the Pixel Bit Depth can be set to 10 bit or 12 bit for DPX.

Premiere Pro 2023 Export options for DPX file format with source set to "Source In/Out"

[hurodal]

Thanks for the explanation Warren.

Anyway, I bet you'll agree with me that having to set both mark in and out and then enter the export window and then set all the parameters to export a single frame is too much work for something that could be way much easier.

And that's what everyone is looking for today, right? (making more with software with easier procedures).

Also, if DPX is a format targetet almost exclusively to export 10-bit frames, why not doing it with just a clic of a button? (the one in the program tab)

Having to do the other procedure it makes no sense, and it can be a nightmare if you have to export, like me, 30 or 40 frames...

Regards,

[R Neil Haugen]

Totally agreed. Though it's also easy enough to see why it is what it is. That was added as simply a quick way to get a reference image ... not expected to be used for other than a 'check' on either the frame for a cut perhaps, or a general application of effects.

But then, we users get involved ... and always, always ... say well, if it can do X, why can't we use that to do Y & Z also?   😉

So it's a great thing to put in this forum as a formal Idea now ...

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

Sure, Export Frame hasn't changed since... since I think Premiere Pro 1.0.  It would be nice if that dialog box was connected to the Export presets;  however, once we've set up the custom export options, those can be saved as a preset for later use.  Even if it's not saved as a preset, once it's been set in the Export options we can then use Quick Export.  If we have to export 30 to 40 stills from several clips, we mark In and Out and then click Quick Export then mark another In and Out, and click Quick Export again - getting a still at the specified Export settings each time.  While it takes some time, I would not call it a nightmare.

If I could change anything, Quick Export would automatically include the time code stamp so we don't have to copy and paste it to the File Name & Location text field, probably a naming token like "_TimeCode" or "_FrameNumber" that can be added to a naming preset (something in keeping with how After Effects handles naming options for images).  Or it would be great to see an Export Marked Frames option to quickly export frames to a chosen preset. 

[Kevin-Monahan]

I believe that this is a feature request. Moving.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Shebbe]

Hey @Kevin-Monahan,

Stumbling upon this thread after your comment. From what I've read I don't think we should classify this as a feature request. It is clear that the current mechanism is faulty. A file with said depth x is created but actually encodes in depth y. 

At the minimum this should be adressed. (though I haven't verified if this is still an issue in latest build)

At the proper level of fixing, this does indeed evolve into a feature request of giving the user an option to encode+write in 8int, 10int, 12int, 16int, 16halffloat, 32float to whichever container they can apply respectively and expose compression settings for the filetypes that use them like jpg compression level or the various EXR compression algorithms.

But in my humble opinion this shouldn't even be a feature request, but rather a natural evolution of adressing an old flawed system due for an upgrade that the devs could fairly easy pick up.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hello @Shebbe,

I am on personal leave, and the team is at NAB this week. I hope to respond to you when I return to work. I appreciate you looking at the issue and your comments.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hello @Shebbe,

I am on personal leave, and the team is at NAB this week. I hope to respond to you when I return to work. I appreciate you looking at the issue and your comments.

Thanks,
Kevin