Re: "Can't make a group of objects that are within...

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

Next time, when you use the Image Trace feature, deselect the recently added "Group automatically" option. This will try to let parts cleverly belong to certain groups, i.e. have the mouth, ears, and nose, separately grouped, on top of a solid underlying black shape. So some red parts might belong to the one group, and others to another...

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

Well... InDesign did offer such a panel, a few versions ago !! Mini Bridge 😄 https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/indesign_cc_mini_bridge_faq.html?x-product=Helpx%2F1.0.0&x-product-location=Search%3AForums%3Alink%2F3.6.6 But, as you can read: it has been removed since 2015 (it was based on Flash technology) and Adobe was touting their Creative Cloud Libraries enormously and rightfully so. Some one developed some alternative plug-in to mimic it, but I can't find that one either anymore. Nevertheless: to still find your way, literally, you can jump-start Bridge from within InDesign, by using the File – Browse in Bridge (or simple quick swap to Bridge with any other system shortcut) and use some pre-set Favorite Folders and Views from there. Or is this too low-key to cater for a scripting, tinkering, fine-tuning power-user like you ? 😉

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

Many (if not most) interactive features have become a bag of hurt, due to fact that there's so little (and even decreasing) support for the various kinds of interactive output InDesign is capable of exporting. It's not so much about how all these features work, but in which export format they might work ! It's crucial to first define and decide which kind of distribution and/or platform you're going to use. More and more technical barriers are rising, to let PDFs perform any Java-scripted interactions (only plain hyperlinks and some form fields and options might work). While ePub Reflowable has been very successful for many decades, ePub Fixed Layout never gained any traction from the industry to manufacture or develop hard or software readers for it (only Apple supports it). Adobe's Publish Online (not Share for Review) works quite well with interactions and even animations, but simple visual stuff like transparancy and shadows seem to be tricky (I haven't checked for 2 or 3 years...) The recently added Export to HTML5 promises a lot (did Adobe finally acquire in5 plugin or what ?) But you know: I don't trust any of it anymore... Maybe that HTML5 thing is the solution you should be looking for, judging by your example. 😄 So the question actually is: are your viewers willing and capable to download a file and maybe some better app along with it to open it, in stead of using their browser or simple standard or free viewer ? Or do you want them go to a website and view it online ? Do they have a Mac or an iPad ? Is it just for setting up some display in a trade booth or shop, and are you in total control of that device ? These questions (and the answers) define which distribution(s) and file format(s) you're going to use. And then you can decide and design the interactive features you're allowed to use.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

Seeing and hopefully understanding correctly what you're trying to accomplish, I think it might be impossible or at least unfavorable to get a grip on creating, selecting, and editing elements quickly, based on Groups and Layers. These are hierarchically/physically very strict ! And it's visually not much more than a simple stacking order, in which only parent pages and masks can perform some exclusive side steps, but not with the ease of use you'd prefer or need. You need style tagging, so you can control any visual expression and functional feature without messing with or within these Layers and Groups their hierarchical construction. Object Styles might help with that a lot ! Even the diamonds can be created, edited, and managed as one single text frame with an Object style ! They can define all visual and functional properties of any object, not just a simple Line and Fill setting. To create the "Negative Decision" object style, I used Corner Options to create the diamond shape, I used Vertical Alignment to center the text in de middle and add some inset, I connected it to a Paragraph Style to make the text the right font, white, horizontally centered, etc. I even restricted its Width to a set size, leaving the Height to whatever is necessary, and set it to always be Positioned left-aligned at 0mm from the right margin. It takes a while and some thinking and discipline to set them up, but editing the size and appearance of objects will become just a matter of applying or Redefining their associated styles. Leaving Layers and Groups to control all objects their visual stacking, selecting, and relating. Keep in mind to name styles semantically. E.g. not "Black Diamond with White Text" but i.e. "Negative Decision". So when you need to edit or overhaul a style its appearance, its name still makes sense. And of course, you can always override any setting or or even disconnect any style locally/manually.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

I see Eugene also replied again 🙂 I hope it resonates with what I'm explaining as well. Note: if a printer is telling to completely deploy all pages in the size and order they need them, just tell them they should have "impositioning" software to do just that. Supply them with your PDF file of all pages (no spreads) and a sample of the intended publication, as seen and used by readers.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 23, 2025

If you're typically trying to stick the back page to the left of the front page, then select that last (left) page, go to the side menu of the Pages panel and look for Numbering and Sections Options. Set the page to intentionally start with that last (even) page number. You can see the little triangle appaearing above it, just like with its right page next to it. The page will behave like a left page now, and won't push the existing right page away. However, this right page automatically gets this last page number +1, so you have to tweak that numbering option as well, to explicitly restart with 1 (and the others will follow). You'll end up getting two pages with triangles at the top. Keep in mind that InDesign is not a printer's tool, but 'reader-inclined'. So all page layout approaches and features work at their best when you mimic what the user sees and uses to navigate (with regards to pages and columns), and not what a printer might find useful and efficient. Eventually, you're always in charge and can always tweak things to let the PDF reflect how the printer needs the pages to be ordered, but that's not InDesign's #1 priority. But InDesign does hold on to any proper regional way of counting pages...

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 13, 2025

Well, that was a quick Cry Wolf ! The strange Debug suffix (in the All apps list) is gone now, so I installed the version, and it's English. I think there must have been a hick-up in some server or in my CC Desktop app settings. But I did see that Debug Wolf, I did, I really did !! Thanks for the helping hands 🙂

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 13, 2025

Thansk for the heads-up @kglad, but even doing it the other way around never hindered the correct install (Illustrator and Photoshop also went well, right now). I did notice that in a different category's panel (the Graphic Design section, not the whole "All apps" list) doesn't bear that Debug name. I'm trying that one as we speak... @Jeffrey_A_Wright Mac on Sonoma 14.7.1, hence the Cmd-key 😉

Peter Villevoye · ‎Feb 13, 2025

Hi there, I'm trying to install a different language version of InDesign (for delivering an English demo in stead of a Dutch one), and I know the drill: change the Apps prefs in my CC Desktop app, remove the current installation of the desired apps to be switched, and re-install the new one (the latest 'normal' version). Sometimes the preference doesn't seem to get honored immediately, but eventually it always works. Until now ! I've switched Illustrator and Photoshop succesfully, but InDesign shows only "Debug" versions to install, without any mention of "2025". Even my older versions seem to have adopted that monniker: I force-refreshed the CC Desktop app (Cmd-option-R). Maybe it's a software deploy glitch on Adobe's side ? BTW: I do have access to InDesign Pre-release versions, but they always show up separately (as Betas).

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 24, 2025

I'm glad that it somehow solved itself by restarting the computer. But it's indeed not a comfortable thought that such a thing can suddenly happen. Maybe it's wise to check if the storage memory of your computer or any additionally assigned Photoshop 'scratch' memory is almost fully used ? https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/scratch-disks-preferences.html And if you haven't done so, making a backup might be a good idea as well, in case there's some technical fault showing its early signs... Keep an eye on it !

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 24, 2025

Hey Hagan, that makes a serious bug more plausible... But do try resetting the preferences first, as Ged described in his earlier reply.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 23, 2025

That's odd ! And I can't think of a use case in which this would logically be a viable option... This is definitely a bug in the software or a glitch in your installation. And if you'd select one of these options (juts for the sake of testing), what happens next ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 23, 2025

My guess so far would be that there are files being corrupted somewhere in the process, either by writing to a memory storage, or reading into Photoshop. But it's not clear to me yet whether this is a one-off incident or something that's happening more often and to more files. And in case it's the latter: does it happen with files coming from one source (client, disk or other physical storage memory), or upon opening all or certain files ? To be honest, there's no trick to clean this file up automatically. But it's crucial to know if this is or will be happening continuously or intermittently, and to discover the cause of it. So hang in there and provide some more answers and be prepared to do some more test, please...

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 23, 2025

Okay, so you've checked your disk access. An since you're able to save other file (formats) in different areas, this doesn't seem to be the problem. However, maybe some older commands to Save or Export certain file formats might have a problem with trying to initially open into a previously folder or volume, which is not there anymore ? Let's first try resetting Photoshop's preferences, by going to the Settings in the Photoshop menu, and in the General section: Reset Preferences on Quit (or some similar wording in that button – mine is in Dutch...) Note: this reset also will switch any custom preferences (if you've made any) in all these Settings categories back to default. Check those and change them again later on, if you want or need to. After quitting and restarting Photoshop, try saving again. Did it help ? If not: could you please state which command(s) you're using exactly, and in which version of Photoshop, that give you this error ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 23, 2025

Are you confusing the new Contextual Bar (often floating around, in an almost stalking manner) with the older and still very useful Options bar (nomally positioned at the top) ? Don't worry, that old one is still around. You can find it almost at the bottom of the Windows menu, or simply switch to (or Reset) the Essentials workspace. If it's something else, then could you make screenshot of what you're seeing ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

Some more precise information would be helpful to diagnose the problem. Is it just with this Save for Web command, or also with other Save commands ? Is it the old Save for Web (legacy) command or any other command to save web files ? Are you aware of Mac applications requiring rights to access certain files and folders ? Most of the apps handle that automatically (upon installation), but maybe something has been messed up on your Mac. Depending on your system version, you can check it in the Settings, under the category Privacy & Security, the tab Files & Folders. And maybe one quick possible fix: the command Save for Web (legacy) has a limit of some-thousand pixels W x H. Does it work with a small test file ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

It's better to ask/post this question/issue in the Download & Install Community: https://community.adobe.com/t5/download-install/ct-p/ct-download-and-install?page=1&sort=latest_replies&lang=all&tabid=all Maybe a moderator might take action to move it ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

Well, one problem is that most EPS files contain at least some pixel data, to serve as a proxy for the true vector data. EPS was developed for the sake of letting early software like Aldus PageMaker quickly show a rough pixel-based depiction of the image on the screen (encapsulated as a separate part in the EPS file), while parsing the vector-based Adobe PostScript part directly to a printer, without actually interpreting it (that was/is handled by the official Adobe PostScript/PDF RIP in the printer). So PageMaker could handle PostScript imagery from drawing tools like Aldus FreeHand, without the costly and slow on-screen processing of the PostScript language. That's how EPS begun. But in the 80's and 90's, developers have created dozens of use-cases of an EPS for certain reasons. An EPS with a huge bit-image and a vector-based clipping masks, a lo-res EPS to connect 4 color-separated hi-res EPS files (DCS), an EPS containing one huge bitmap and some PostScript to define 2 or more color curves (e.g. Duotones), etcetera... These have all been declared legacy (Photoshop files can hold such features natively now), but they're still around ! And in many other cases less proficient designers simply toss a bitmap image (like a logo or icon) in Adobe Illustrator, save it as an EPS or Illustrator file, hoping/thinking it becomes a vector image, and call it a day. Such an Illustrator file contains a tiny bit of PostScript (a vector rectangle, which holds a bunch of bitmap data). It probably also has been saved with "PDF complaince", meaning that it's actually wrapped as a PDF file, containing some extra AI resources (the PostScript and the bitmap), with an ".ai" extension slapped on it as the file name (so Illustrator will open it when double-clicking it...) And to make it worse: especially in an AI file, there might rightfully be a creative mix of vectors and bitmap-based parts in it. And the same can be true for a PSD file. So unless you're truly looking into the coded content of an AI, EPS, or PSD file, or simply look at it on-screen and zoom-in a lot, you never know what the file actually contains.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

Ouch, that really looks worrying ! At first glance I'd say these are signs/symptoms of a faulty graphics card. But since you state that you're actually able to (and need to) remove these dots from the image, it must be something else. It looks like a TIFF file, with incorrectly tagged data. But I could speculate on many more causes. Could you elaborate a little more on what you were doing or working on when these dots appeared ? And does it always happen, or just in certain sitiations, or with certain files, or actions ? It's definitely not anything standard or a common bug. So some more information (like circumstances, actions leading to this behavior, what this or the rest of the image should look like, etc.) would really be helpful.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

I've also encountered that alert a few times. Just hit Generate again, it might already be better the next second.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 21, 2025

Well, the typical use of 3D renditions for object selections, converting them into editable and automatically updating masking files, is not really something very common ! There are already 1001 workflows available in Photoshop, and it depends on you to come up with an undocumented workflow number 1002 ! Photoshop is just a huge toolkit. Imagination and ingenuity is the real wizardry...

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 19, 2025

Ah, I understand your workflow now ! (I also see some 3D-generated object selection masks and normal maps.) You're using separate files as masks, and want them to be converted (and updated) to layer or group masks. There are levels of automation possible in Photoshop: [1] An Action, which mimics a sequence of steps, including the opening or processing of a certain fixed or variable file. There's only one downside to this: Actions (or Batches) are user invoked. So it's not an option to let Photoshop 'scan' a folder automatically and let files be updated autonomously. [2] Scripting could maybe solve this, but I'm not familar enough with this. As mentioned by @c.pfaffenbichler, using these files as linked Smart Objects in combination with a clever Blend setting might be the easiest solution. I tried it, and it worked ! The linked placed Mask_test.png became a Smart Object layer and its Blend setting makes it serve as a mask. Note to hold the alt/option key to drag only the left part of the right slider, to let the edges become soft (just as the grey level indicates a graded opacity). Otherwise it's a hard cut-off in opacity. Try building this into your workflow. It surely needs a lot of combining and tweaking, but updating the Mask-test.png instantly had its effect in the combined image. It's up to you to decide if these preparations are worth the effort (especially when you need a lot of such masks). My only worry is that the mask layer might blend a bit of its own subtle gray in the edges, in stead of just masking the original color. Maybe some one else knows another nifty option in this panel to prevent that, or use a different technique to get a better result ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 17, 2025

Ohhh dear Ton, I've been worrying about this mysterious and uncontrollable alert since long now, and this is the answer ? Thanks ! 🙂

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 17, 2025

If i understand it correctly (and if any crucial details didn't get lost in translation), you want to keep the masks in sync with the geometry of the layer's image ? That's odd, because that's the standard way how layers and masks are handled (moved and scaled), unless this chain (link) between the image and mask icon is switched off: But somehow, I think something else might be bothering you. Could you supply a screenshot of your Layers panel of such a complex design ? And perhaps a visual impression (image or screenshot) of what's going wrong ?

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 17, 2025

You're right – the standard Photoshop approach for e.g. brushes existed long before the Camera Raw converter was developed (actually Lightroom's editing approach), and the interface was indeed designed by a different team, led by Andrei Herasimchuk. They were allowed to come up wiith new ideas for this application, even though it would break with Photoshop's (and even Adobe's) conventions. Now, how to get more control over the brush ? Maybe it helps to simply decrease the Brush tool's overall Opacity by using its slider or numerical keys from 1 to 0 (keys in compliance with setting a layer's opacity, when using the Move tool). But if you really need an opaque center with a different 'fall-off' grade, you could consider creating your own brush shapes. Create a circular black to white blob, or any other cloud, spatter, or textural drawing. This image will control the brush density ranging from 100 to 0%. Its size depends on the largest size and smoothness you need. Maybe 200 x 200 pixels is already enough. Select it with the marquee and use Edit – Define Brush to create a custom brush out of it. You can see it appearung in the Brushes window. Take a look at the very first settings category on the left side in the Brush Settings window, to decrease the Spacing, if the brush seems to be staggering a bit.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Jan 09, 2025

Well, we're more than a month later and there's a newer version (Build: 0.20.1-20241218.r.9-d0939c3). But none of my earlier suggestions have found their way into the current version. Which is understandable, when priorities were given to improving technologies and fixing bugs. Nevertheless, I do hope that my suggestions will be considered and exectued, because otherwise I think this tool will become just another failed attempt to lure designers into a 3D application. My advices –again– in a nutshell, even if it's going to be a Minimal Viable Product for now. Feature-wise A Directonal Lighting setting (like sunlight), which supports at least a height setting next to a panoramic value and an intensity. Environmental Lights (aka Image Based Lighting) are useful, but can only revolve. The designer definitely needs more control over the direction and heigt of any key light, to have a direct effect on the key shadows, to make the rendered 3D object fit the 2D composition's lighting. If this Photoshop connection is what you think is very useful, than such a key lighting is crucial. And the Canvas Cropping feature (still) works horrible... Interface-wise Please try to offer a navigational interface (on-screen gizmo, mouse/trackpad, modifier keys) which tends to be more common, at least within the current Adobe eco-system of 3D tools. And let any Help to navigate the scene be truly helpful. The location and design of many icons, buttons, and features is still confusing. Buttons and sliders that should be greyed out when they momentarily don't offer any interaction; features/actions that should be in a different modal (like Generate, which belongs in the Home panel); icons that don't match nor even relate to what they actually stand for (silly Canvas button on the left bar, not even matichting the toggle button in the top bar); alerts that pop up in a different spot than expected... It wouldn't be the first time a tool dies because of a crippled interface. Find more descriptions of the mentioned issues in my initial post.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Nov 29, 2024

In general, I think it is a good idea to have such a tool to serve as a 3D viewer and segway to 2D tools, and especially to integrate some 3D processing (not creating) into Photoshop. And initially, that works very well. Dragging a 3D file into the Photoshop canvas, getting a Smart Object layer, which can be opened, viewed and slightly edited in this Substance Viewer. Kudos for that integration ! Viewing and/or (slightly) editing 3D files using the Substance Viewer as a stand-lone tool, is less successful. The file opens in the 3D view, stating I can "Freely move around..." Well, I tried to click and drag anywhere, but nothing happens. Ah, I spot an option in the corner of the canvas, to set my device. Should I pick 2 or 3 buttons, or trackpad" ? I have a Mac with a no-button mouse. What setting do I use now ? And as I tried to switch to trackpad, it couldn't honor my personal settings... So the device settings and gesture clues are quite clueless and useless for most Mac users. This is the umpteenth navigational interface in the 3D area, even within the Adobe set of tools. Neo, anyone ? BTW: I also spotted some arrows (>>, with tip) in the bottom left corner, which are just silly. Clicking it doesn't do anything. It merely presents a description, which makes no sense. I'll just stick to opening some of the settings panels myself, guessing I'm not missing anything relevant here. Let's skip the Appearance (paint icon) because I want to enjoy my weekend... Except for the fact that these settings are called "Materials" in Dimension and Stager. Why the confusion ? And why do the unavailable color or image swatches of unavailable options stand out so terribly pink ? Surprise ! The Composition icon looks like an Environment settings. But it's actually switching to Canvas mode showing a 2D comp. In the actual lighting settings named Environment with a light bulb icon and Light as the only section [sigh] all you can set is indeed the Environment light, with Brightness & Rotation and some other options. But I'm missing the option to set a generic 'sun' light, including a Height, to obtain the correct main lighting direction (and shadows) to match with other parts in my comp. The Generate icon, whipping up 2 methods to a prompt entry box, should not be in this area. It appears to belong to the other settings but it doesn't. It starts a complete new file, after closing your current one. Please place it in the section below the Home folder icon or somewhere else. Why does cropping the canvas initially scale the picture, just to jump back to a correct (cropped) rendering when you release the handle ? That's a bit useless, even counterproductive. You can't see what will be cut away. It also differs in how it behaves horizontally vs vertically. With the vertical handles, content is not cropped but scaled. That's a mistake, I hope. Alerts (like "Lighting Effects are not supported") are prompted at the top, in the middle, and stay in view until I close them. Or rather: at one time, I tried to close it, but it didn't want to go away. First: why not show that alert where it's appropriate, i.e. in the Light or Material panel itself, in stead of showing an irritting Help tip popup about what I can do (or actually can't do now). Or even better: leave unavailable settings greyed out (like in Environment panel), with a gentle popup telling why it doesn't work. And now I know why the alert only went away after 20 close-clicks: I tried the (unavailable) settings for a couple of 20 times... Finally, coming from Photoshop in Viewer, doing some edits, and after clicking To Photoshop, I'm not being brought back to Photoshop. Would be nice if it did. Or maybe it's the "default" application setting of my system that is messing things up again ? All in all, the concept is okay, and the technology works reasonably. But I'm afrad the clumsiness of the interface will be a hindrance in testing/using it any further than the back-and-forth integration with Photoshop. My 2 cents. [I'm using Build: 0.19.1-20241106.r.9-fa61c87, on a Mac with Sonoma]

Peter Villevoye · ‎Aug 22, 2024

You have two options/solutions. First, while editing your project in the Aero desktop app (beta), look at the top right corner, in the Scene panel. Select the Globe icon (Anchor), and in the Properties panel in the bottom right corner, change Anchor type to Horizontal (or even Vertical) surface. When testing it, you can now pick any surface that's flat and fit enough for previewing. Second, in that same bottom right Properties panel with the Anchor type set to Location, you can simply change the location from and to any place near you and later on back again to the location where it's needed.

Peter Villevoye · ‎Aug 22, 2024

I've been playing, teaching and working with Stager (formerly Dimension) and Aero since their incarnation. The Aero Desktop app interface is still looking messy and behaving like a true beta version indeed. But hey, it works, and with a lot of work-arounds and getting used to its awkwardnes, producing AR content is great fun ! But the mobile (iPhone) app is getting buggier by the month. Finding projects, loading, previewing, recording, and exiting them, is failing more and more often. Especially with location-anchored projects. • When I try to open them from my Files tab, they won't load due to an error: "Editing location-anchored projects is not supported on iOS. Open with Aero desktop (beta) to edit." But I don't want to edit it, I just want to preview it. Now I have to open it from a Shared link I sent to myself as a message... • When I afterwards try to re-open the recent location-anchored project from my Recents list in the Home tab, the app probably found out that I'm the owner, so it yields the same error as above. (So we're back to using that message link again.) • When I try to record a video of a location-anchored project, the iOS rightfully alerts me to allow screen/audio recording (which I grant it), followed by an app alert: "Attempting to place the scene" and a "Reset anchor" button. Whatever I try, the process just hangs, showing no correct overlay or content. At a certain point, ir prompts me to "Pan around" (as if it's restarting) but with no result. Force-quitting the app is the only option, now. BTW, Aero desktop beta is often nagging me with a "Unexpectedly Quit" report, when I quit it... Am I the only one suffering from these quirks ? Or am I the only one complaining about them ? Or maybe I'm the only one trying them out ? I don't hope so... (I'm using a 4 year old MacBook Pro 16" Intel and iPhone SE 2020, both on their latest OS.)

Peter Villevoye · ‎May 18, 2024

FINALLY ! Adobe saw the light and lets (Beta) Photoshop users have a new brush tool which offers a non-destructive approach to replace what they've always wanted to do with the Dodge, Burn, and Saturate tools for decades. Or to simply do what Lightroom and hundreds of photo apps do as well: act on the spot where you point at. It's going to be crucial to let current users become aware of the fact that a 'drawing' tool actually creates an ordinary Adjustment layer, though starting out with a black mask and a white brush. The forced switching of the color swatches is also a bit unexpected. Why not let it revert to the user's original colors, just like with the current mask behavior. And the plus and minus brush in the Options bar of the Adjustment brush can be misleading, e.g. thinking that in case of Brightness & Contrast the brush with the minus will make things less bright. But it's a good thing, so hopefully users will quickly get used to it and learn about Adjustment layers and their masks in general. And what does the Adjustment tool in the current web version of Photoshop do ? The old and exact opposite. That's a pity and going to be veeeery confusing...

Peter Villevoye

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