P: Generative Remove Feedback (Lr Classic & Lr Eco)

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

This post applies to Lightroom Classic and the Lightroom Ecosystem products.

Camera Raw feedback can be found here.

Generative Remove makes it easier to remove unwanted objects and distractions with a simple gesture, even on complex backgrounds. For more accurate results, be sure to include the object's shadow in your selection and/or expand its size. 

Detect Objects uses AI to find the objects underneath a brushed area. The masked areas will now appear larger than the Early Access version of this feature. You can also circle objects for quicker selection now. 

We have also updated the spot selection experience to make it easier to manage variations, switch the fill type, refine the selection area, or re-generate as needed. 

Batch updating is also now supported for Generative Remove spots. 

Try out the latest updates and share your feedback with us here. Please also include the following details in your post: 

• App version
• System details
• Example image(s) if you wish to share

Our team continually monitors this thread to track issues for future improvement. Thanks!

Lisa Ngo: Lightroom Product Manager

Posted by:

[Patrick22616748c1sx]

Come on, now you're trying to convince yourself, that everything's working as intended.

You have 14 pages of complaints that all go in the same direction but nope, it's not the tool, the users are. the problem. Some of the people even say everything worked fine before. SOMETHING had to change with the current update. 

But I know, you will come to us with your list of tricks and tell us to get a Playstation controller and press L1, left, right, right, X, X, O, R1 in order to use the tool that is working the same way it always did.

If I had to reply to so many people, always saying the same thing because they seem to all get it wrong collectively, I would maybe look into the other direction and ask why the tool behaves so poorly and unintuitive 

[johnrellis]

@Patrick22616748c1sx: "You have 14 pages of complaints that all go in the same direction...you will come to us with your list of tricks and tell us to get a Playstation controller and press L1, left, right, right, X, X, O, R1 in order to use the tool that is working the same way it always did."

Facts are stubborn things, and you're not accurately representing them.

Since LR 14 was released, there were 33 people posting here who thought Remove had changed for the worse but provided very little detail, and they didn't respond to requests for sample photos or screenshots.

But there were 32 33 34 people who posted photos or screenshots, many at our request. With all of these, we were able to show how to remove the objects easily using the simple techniques described in the tutorial article. Some of these users had been convinced that LR 14 had changed Remove for the worse, while in fact they would have gotten the same behavior in LR 13.

As the help article says, "Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly to get the best results." Given the experience with the 32 33 34 who posted photos or screenshots, I think it's reasonable to conclude that many of the 33 people who provided no details didn't know how to use the tool properly.  And rather than silently ignore them, it's reasonable to refer them to the help article, which takes just a few minutes to read, and encourage them to submit problem photos if it doesn't help.  (You have never posted a problem photo.)

The Remove user interface could certainly be improved, and there are some common themes among the people who provided photos:

- Many don't know that you should apply Remove first, then crop and mask.

- LR 14 enabled Detect Objects by default, which adds a larger border around objects, and it doesn't work well with skinny objects or objects on the edge. But many users didn't know that they'd often get better results by turning it off.

- For some users, the Opacity slider was getting set to less than 100, probably by LR due to a bug, a problem that also existed in LR 13.

But despite these rough edges, many, many people have quickly learned how to use Remove productively.  I'm hardly an apologist for Adobe, and I have made a number of critical posts about Remove. I submitted two bug reports of obviously wrong behavior that Adobe has designated "as designed".

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/variations-aren-t-shown-for-discontinuo...

https://community.adobe.com/t5/camera-raw-discussions/generative-remove-doesn-t-ignore-the-hidden-bo...

Below are the 32 33 34 posts from those who included photos or screenshots, followed by the 33 posts from those who believed Remove got worse in LR 14. I've excluded the many people who stumbled over the serious LR 14.0 bug with Update AI Settings, which was quickly fixed in LR 14.0.1 two days later. I've also excluded the smattering of network connectivity/firewall issues and problems caused by outdated graphics drivers, all of which predate LR 14.

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Posts including photos or snapshots

10/14/24: Didn't know about selecting shadows, didn't include original photo

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/18/24: Article solved problems

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/14/24: Object on edge of photo, easy to remove, not new to LR 14

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/15/24: Opacity slider

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24: Remove on top of sky masks, not new to LR 14:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24: Didn't know how to uncheck Detect Objects or modify its selection

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24: Didn't know how to uncheck Detect Objects or modify its selection

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/17/24: Opacity slider:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/19/24:Removing object from corner of photo, not new to LR 14:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/19/24: Remove on top of sky mask, not new to LR 14:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/19/24: Said the article solves the problems

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/20/24: Removing objects along the edge

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/20/24: Opacity slider

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24: Cropped before Remove

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24: Cropped and masked before Remove

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24: Showed how to remove power lines easily

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/23/24: Remove on sky mask or not blending well -- not new to LR 14

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/24/24: Didn't select all bits of the person in the background. Professional photographer who said she understood how to use Remove correctly.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/26/24: Applied Remove on top of cropping and masking

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/24/24: Applied Remove on top of cropping and masking, didn't select entire object.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/27/24: Used Detect Objects rather than brushing straight lines to remove a pole

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/28/24: Didn't select the shadow cast by a car

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/29/24: Didn't select all of the car to be removed

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/30/24: Remove on top of a sky mask

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/30/24: Didn't know about unchecking Detect Objects, hadn't read anything about the tool before

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/1/24: Didn't know about unchecking Detect Objects.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/1/24: Opacity slider

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/1/24: Cropped before Remove

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/3/24: Cropped before Remove

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/3/24: Cropped before Remove

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/5/24: Didn't include shadow

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic... 

11/5/24: Cropped before Remove, thought something must have changed in the last week

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic... 

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Posts saying that LR 14 made Remove worse but not including any details:

10/15/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24: Probably Opacity slider

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/17/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/14/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/14/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/14/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/18/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/31/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/14/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/15/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/16/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/18/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/18/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/19/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/20/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/21/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/25/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/26/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/27/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/27/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/28/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/30/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/30/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

10/31/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

11/2/24:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/p-generative-remove-feedback-lr-classic...

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

"(I don't work for Adobe, and I'm responsible for more bug reports filed from this forum than any other single person.)"

True. 

[DRS69]

After the latest update (October 2024) the remove feature in LrC doesn't do anything. I do get three options to choose from, but nothing has chnaged in the photo. I have restarted LrC several times, but it doesn't do any good. I have the generative AI box checked as well as the content aware box. When I load the photo into PS the lasso tool and Generative fill do a great job of removing objects. However, I cannot get LrC to remove something as simple as a light pole.

[johnrellis]

[This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

@jimbessette: "A month or so ago this was working suberbly for me.  Now, it doesn't remove anything.  I try to remove a simple line in a photo and all it does is replace the line in almost exactly the same place."

@DRS69: "After the latest update (October 2024) the remove feature in LrC doesn't do anything. I do get three options to choose from, but nothing has changed in the photo."

Make sure the Opacity slider is set to 100:

You'll have to make at least one brush stroke to see the slider.  A fair number of people have reported that the slider gets set to less than 100 without them changing it, and the new UI design makes it harder to see the current value.

If this doesn't help, please post back here and we can move to the next troubleshooting step.

[sakipo54272919]

Remove, we usually want to remove an object and we selct it as precide as possible. But the remove process brings a red dyed area, which is much larger than what we want to remove. So this program thinks we do lousy job to identify what as to be removed. I am not lousy.
Second, I still see the object I want to remove in the generative removal. I have to try more times proposals. And after 4-6 times a totally remoed proposal comes. Why not as first one?

[C.Cella]

@sakipo54272919 When using Objects Detect Remove the selections is "auto expanded" about 500 pixels compared to the real selection.

The underlying idea is that the larger the area the better the Remove will be as hopefully shadows, reflections and other elements that need to be removed will be included in the auto expand.

It is actually better to paint the area ourselves than trust this auto expand that might include areas we don't need to remove OR not include shadows, reflections, connected parts.

You can chage the color of the overlay to what you want.

If you needed to refresh several times to get a usable results it might be either becasue (1) the area to remove was not painted big enough (2)  without instructions Ai can only guess what to generate so doens't know waht you need.

Please report the variations you got using the … menu in the selected Gen Remove.

The reports will be sent directly to Adobe for analysis, that's the best method to train better the Ai.

.

[johnrellis]

@sakipo54272919: "we usually want to remove an object and we selct it as precide as possible."

As C.Cella described, in general Remove works best if you include a border around the object you want to remove -- it usually doesn't work well if you select precisely the object and no more.

When you use the Detect Objects option, it adds a generous border that may be too big for some kinds of objects, especially long skinny ones (poles and wires).  In general, like C.Cella, I more often uncheck Detect Objects and brush the object manually if the first attempt doesn't work.

"I still see the object I want to remove in the generative removal. I have to try more times proposals. And after 4-6 times a totally remoed proposal comes. Why not as first one?"

There are several possible causes, usually very easy to address.  See this article for how to remove objects more reliably:
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

Most complaints about Remove are addressed in the article. But if it doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[Sydney17505080cms9]

Hi - I've been using the generative features of LC for 6 months or so, replacing complex items from images easily with great results. Very recently, it's not been working, I feel since LC started making the selcted area uch larger. Items are removed from images but leave a completely messed up area, as in this image, before and after. I wanted to remove a slim white pole. I selected the pole with a little extra but LC turned this into a much larger area, including the sign board at the bottom of the pole. See what LC did with the removal. Am I doing something wrong?

MacBook Pro 13" 2023, IOS Sonoma 14.6.1, Lightroom Classic 14.0.1

[johnrellis]

@Sydney17505080cms9: "since LC started making the selcted area uch larger. Items are removed from images but leave a completely messed up area, as in this image, before and after. I wanted to remove a slim white pole. I selected the pole with a little extra but LC turned this into a much larger area, including the sign board at the bottom of the pole. See what LC did with the removal. Am I doing something wrong?"

In both LR 13 and 14, I often get better results unchecking Detect Objects, especially with long skinny things like lines and poles. Remove almost always does better with some border around the object, but often Detect Objects makes it too big.

Retry with it unchecked. But if that doesn't help, please attach a full-resolution JPEG exported from the unmodified original photo (not a screenshot), so we and Adobe can see the issue in detail. With nearly everyone who has posted a problem photo, we've been able to show how to quickly remove the desired objects.

[SidewaysSyd]

Thanks John..that worked. I need to read up on how to use this - I had no idea about unchecking Detect Objects

[SidewaysSyd]

I was too quick to say it was ok. The pole was removed ok, but the word 'restaurant' on the awning behind has been corrupted. I've attached hte unedited original and a screenshot of the section of the edited version showing the crruption of the word restaurant and also the words on the board at the bottom of the pole

[johnrellis]

@SidewaysSyd: "I had no idea about unchecking Detect Objects"

See this article for an excellent introduction to how to use Remove effectively:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/generative-remove-replace/

As the article says, "Like any tool, you need to know how to use it properly to get the best results." I don't think Adobe is doing a very good job at helping people learn the tool.

"The pole was removed ok, but the word 'restaurant' on the awning behind has been corrupted."

Yeah, Remove doesn't do as well trying to generate fill-replacements for words. It usually generates gibberish "letters" in the same color and font style. (I haven't seen other tools able to do words reliably either.)

But surprisingly in this case, on my third try I was able to replace the pole cleanly, minimize the visual distortion to the sides of the pole, and get a pretty good replacement for the missing letters in "RESTAURANT" and the chalk board:

The things I did to make this happen: 

1. Uncheck Detect Objects. It's too crude for such fine control.

2. Brush straight lines using the same method as with other LR brushes: Click at one end, shift-click at the other.

3. Pick a width that's just a little bit wider than the pole but not too wide. I used two straight lines, for for the pole, one for the white sign at the top of the pole.

Here's what the brush stroke on the pole looks like:

I've attached the original JPEG you posted saved with the Develop settings containing the Remove brush strokes -- you can import it into your LR and go to the Remove tool to see the exact brush strokes.

[SidewaysSyd]

Thanks John. I never read anything about generative removal - I just tried by trial and error but learned how to do the simple things I need it to do. So I will read that lightroomqueen article. But I do agree that something has changed as shown by the many complaints from people.  Thanks for the downloads

[johnrellis]

@SidewaysSyd: "I do agree that something has changed as shown by the many complaints from people."

Of the people who have provided sample photos here, the issues fall into different buckets: LR 14 increased the size of the Detect Objects border, which often hurts as much as it helps. The Opacity slider is now hidden when you first use the tool, and the LR upgrade infrequently and incorrectly changes the slider to 0.  But most of the people are tripping over things whose behavior hasn't changed (e.g. applying Remove on top of a crop or AI masking, or not selecting a shadow), but since they first encountered the issue soon after the upgrade, they assume it's an upgrade issue.

[steven30428533bjee]

Doesn't work any more. Tried to remove a picture that was hanging from a wall - it just replaced it with another picture. How does this get through QA? Put it back how it was please.

[wa-so]

Am I missing something, or has the opacity slider disappeared completely in the removal tool?

[johnrellis]

[This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

@wa-so: "Am I missing something, or has the opacity slider disappeared completely in the removal tool?"

The new user-interface design of the Remove tool in LR 14 makes it very easy to miss.  After you click Remove, it will appear with the other controls that let you modify the removal: 

[wa-so]

Oh yes, you're right!
Quite hidden compared to the previous version.

[vinceha]

Since the update, any generative AI + masks I have applied are automatically resetting every time I leave the photo or switch modules.  This means I have to constantly "update AI settings" for each photo and this is exhausting.

[johnrellis]

LR 14 introduced a severe bug where LR wouldn't properly save the AI settings for masking and Remove. Adobe says that LR 14.0.1 fixes it, but there might be additional steps you might have to take (see the second reply):

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-subject-mask-from-previous-versions-are-requ...

[amrey329]

Lightroom Classic 14.0.1

The Generative AI is fabulous! One thing I feel could be eventually achieved to improve is some way to *save* AI changes we've accepted so they can be applied across other images for a consistent look. For example, I have images of a bride where her bra was up above the back of her gown, and it was Velcroed together. I used the Generative AI to remove the bra strap, and it performed marvelously. I kept the choice simple because I felt it would be my best option for trying to find a consistent-looking option every time. On the next image, when I went to remove the bra strap, it only offered elaborate designs no matter how many times I generated new options. Obviously, I had to just pick the closest one in shape, since the eye would notice that first, but the look is still quite different if you look at the images a few times. I don't think my bride will be upset; I think she'll be pleased that the bra strap isn't showing and that she has those images, but since they aren't exaactly a scene one would print, it should be fine. However, if it was one of my more high end clients, I'd have to just Photoshop it and spend way more time on it than I'd prefer in order to make it look like the exact same dress every time. Keep up the great work!

[David_Latini1083]

What a I supposed to enter in this space.

[johnrellis]

@David_Latini1083, did you have a problem or question about the photo you attached?

[Rikk Flohr: Photography]

Greetings all, 

Thank you for the feedback on the Generative Remove Feature thus far. We've noticed some comments in this thread that results from the Max release have, in some cases, been a regression from the August iteration of the feature. A change has been made on the server to address this today. 

For those of you who have seen sub-par results when compared with the August release, can you please rerun a few of your images through the Generative Remove tool again to see if the results have improved or if you are still facing issues? 

Thank you for your patience and we look forward to hearing additional feedback.