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AVCHD Workflow help

New Here ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Hello all,

I will be migrating to Premiere Pro CS6 from FInal Cut Pro 7 starting this fall for all of my video production classes.  I need some guidance on workflow. 

We currently shoot on Sony NX70u which uses the AVCHD codec producing .MTS files.  I've been working with the native AVCHD files on PP CS6 for a few days now to get acquainted with the workflow and performance on our Macs (some iMacs and some Mac Pro towers) and so far so good.  My question:

I know PP CS6 will work with the native AVCHD files, but I'm worried about performace issues with my Macs.  Is there any reason to transcode the AVCHD files to another codec before editing in PP?  I guess I'm still in the Final Cut Pro-Log and Transfer mode of thinking about files

Cheers,

Micheal

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New Here ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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Keyword here: transcoding.  The whole selling point behind premiere is that you can edit natively.  Transcoding to ProRes is not only time consuming but makes the file sizes about 3 times bigger.  Obviously a work around, but then what makes Premiere different from FCP7?  This issue needs to be fixed.

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Community Beginner ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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jrobba3 wrote:

This issue needs to be fixed.

Agreed.

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Participant ,
Jun 01, 2012 Jun 01, 2012

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I would suggest contacting Adobe Phone Support as well to report the issue !

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 01, 2012 Jun 01, 2012

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chesterr_mizik wrote:

I would suggest contacting Adobe Phone Support as well to report the issue !

I think I have actually put in 2 bug reports about this problem. I am hoping for an update soon to fix this problem, even though I have a work around.

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Explorer ,
Jun 02, 2012 Jun 02, 2012

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Adobe has been in touch with me and I'm sending them "offender" files today to help the process along.

Will post any updates here.

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Explorer ,
Jun 08, 2012 Jun 08, 2012

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Have there been any updates from Adobe?

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LEGEND ,
Jun 08, 2012 Jun 08, 2012

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Yes, but this issue still exists.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 09, 2012 Jun 09, 2012

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Have you had any helpful contact with Adobe?

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Explorer ,
Jun 09, 2012 Jun 09, 2012

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No word back on anything at the moment -I FTPed a trimmed project and some files last week, so we shall see. I can say that they are working on it.

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Explorer ,
Jun 10, 2012 Jun 10, 2012

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Still not resolved. PLEASE, everyone with this issue go to:

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

(This is Adobe's bug report page)

and send Adobe something like "Long/spanned MTS files cause hanging/freezing"

also, most are also complaining about "Audio RE-conforming" each time one of these projects opens, maybe send that too.

They respond to volume, so let's "turn up" the volume.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 10, 2012 Jun 10, 2012

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I have hit the same problem I have described earlier again in the same project. This time it is another clip from the same Canon Vixia HFS20 that the other offending clip is from. This is unbearable. 2 out of the 4 clips necessary to complete this wedding DVD are being garbled by Premiere.

Here are the specific problems:

Green Frames on the specific clip when scrubbing over it the main timeline or the multicamera window.

If I export a section where it transitions from a Sony camera clip to the Canon Vixia camera's clip with a simple dissolve transition it turns out with pixilated video with red squares all over.

When premiere needs to update the preview windows, the main time line and the multicamera windows are about 10 seconds sluggish, at least.

Clearing the media cache doesn't help.

Deleting all preview files doesn't help.

My work around was to use media encoder to transform the offending file into an MPEG AVI. The first clip that did this has not been a problem in Premiere again and I have been able to work. Until now.

One other thing I did was to use the project manager to move the entire project to another drive.

Between those 2 things I was able to get some work done. But here we go again. I have lost a full month because of this problem. I know because I received an e-mail from Adobe telling me they took my money. I lost 2 weeks trying to find a solution in the forums and from Adobe support's site.

Adobe I have work to do, please fix this problem. Oh and here comes another bug report.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jun 11, 2012 Jun 11, 2012

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I just wanted to chime in to let others know that we are still tracking all these issues.

The spanned clip issue seems to be only reproducible with some Canon clips. We have checked a number of other spanned clips from different manufacturers. Even with the Canon files, it doesn't occur on all spanned clips.

Also, there seems to be some related but slightly different issues in this growing thread. It may be useful to address or discuss them in separate threads as it may become to unwieldly to track a variety of issues on a single thread. This thread has already moved away from the original issue.

We have received the bugs reported and continue to look at them. A lack of direct correspondence does not equate to a lack of interest or concern.

Thank you all for all your support.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 11, 2012 Jun 11, 2012

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First, thanks for letting us know you are working on the problem. Maybe at this point you can shed some light on a few issues.

What is meant by "spanned" AVCHD files?

Reg Santo Tomas wrote:

The spanned clip issue seems to be only reproducible with some Canon clips. We have checked a number of other spanned clips from different manufacturers. Even with the Canon files, it doesn't occur on all spanned clips.

What Canon cameras seem to be affected? Which other Camera Manufacturers cameras? Has the problem occurred in previous versions of Premiere? Are there any other HD file types that have the same problem?

I know that this may be jumping the gun and that you might not be able to answer some of the following questions but maybe you can give us a temporary solution.

Do you have a "solid" work around? Is there something we can do without a full reencoding of the files that would fix the problem?

Also, there seems to be some related but slightly different issues in this growing thread. It may be useful to address or discuss them in separate threads as it may become to unwieldly to track a variety of issues on a single thread. This thread has already moved away from the original issue.

Sorry. I don't understand how this happened. I thought was replying to this Thread. I must have replied by clicking one of the links in my email and thought was on the other thread.

Is there an easy way to move the posts around?

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Enthusiast ,
Jun 12, 2012 Jun 12, 2012

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Thanks for the feedback Reg.   Do the engineers have any idea what's causing this yet and have worked out a possible fix (to come in future updates) or are we still in the data collection phase?

I'm trying to figure out if we should continue using CS6 and suffer transcoding from this one camera or roll back to CS5.5 where were didn't have the problem.  There are things in CS6 I'd rather not give up (like the skimming).

Do we have *any* idea of a timeframe to a fix being released?

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New Here ,
Jun 19, 2012 Jun 19, 2012

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I am having the same issue with footage from Panasonic AG-AC160 and AG-AC130 so I don't think it only Canon files that are affected.

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LEGEND ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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Is there a way to get it to stay around the same size as the original and keep the quality?

No.  Anything that small will require lossy compression.  You'll have to decide between quality and size.  You can't have both.

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Community Beginner ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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Jim Simon wrote:

No.  Anything that small will require lossy compression.  You'll have to decide between quality and size.  You can't have both.

Jim, I should have said that I only transcoded 30 seconds worth and it was twice the size of a 4 minute clip. That kind of ballooning is not going to be possible with my current drive setup. I understand that the footage is HD and all, but isnt there a way to change it enough to get it near same quality and near same size? Is the "wrapper" the problem? Should I encode to MOV instead of AVI?

Thanks for you help in this, I really appreciate every response.

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LEGEND ,
May 31, 2012 May 31, 2012

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isnt there a way to change it enough to get it near same quality and near same size?

Not really, no.  Getting it anywhere near that size will require heavy compression.  The 'wrapper' makes little difference here.  It's the codec that does.

If you need more hard drive space, go ahead and get some.  Better that than compromise on quality, I say.

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Community Beginner ,
May 31, 2012 May 31, 2012

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Jim Simon wrote:

isnt there a way to change it enough to get it near same quality and near same size?

Not really, no.  Getting it anywhere near that size will require heavy compression.  The 'wrapper' makes little difference here.  It's the codec that does.

If you need more hard drive space, go ahead and get some.  Better that than compromise on quality, I say.

I agree, but at the same time I already have a few TB drives. I have some old projects that are waiting to be done. The problem is everytime I add a new drive I find something to fill it up to at least 1/2 if not 3/4 full. Each drive I add or think about adding causes my stomach to turn.

Why? Because I have no good backup solution. If my house were to catch fire I would be doing my best to get my family out first and then saving my computer tower and the 3 external TB drives worth of footage because if they go I have nothing.

I am thinking and working out a solution to this, but right now my main concern is the project. And yes, I have copied the files around so if a drive were to fail I wouldn't loose the footage. I actually had that happen to 1 of those old projects I mentioned. $700 and 3 weeks later I got a working replacement drive with all my data back.

Anyways... I was thinking if this file is the only offender then I could just transcode to a large file and different format to see if that helps.

Question: If I were to uncompress the footage to a large file size, high quality format, would that cause problems with playback in premiere or would that make it easier to work with? If the processor doesnt have to "interpret" the frames because it is basically an image sequence on the drive in an AVI wrapper does that cause slowness in playback or would it speed up and only the drive speed would be a problem? I hope you understand what I am asking...

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LEGEND ,
Jun 01, 2012 Jun 01, 2012

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would it speed up and only the drive speed would be a problem?

Yes, that.  AVCHD is heavily compressed and requires a lot of CPU horsepower to work with efficiently.  Uncompressed (or lossless compression like UT) is easier on the CPU, but it is a larger file and so is more stressful on the hard drive.  A fully Uncompressed HD file may give you issues.  A UT version (using YUV420 mode) should play just fine from a single, modern drive even at HD resolution.

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Explorer ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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Hey ACT.onn,

ACT.onn wrote:

In addition to the problems mentioned above, all of which I have with a project in which I have 1 set of MOV files and 2 sets of AVCHD files (3 cameras at a wedding), I am getting a clip that shows green frames whenever and wherever I stop scrubbing on that clip. I think the green frame = media pending but I haven't seen premiere do that before.

Curious on a few things:

1) What cameras are you are using?

2) What are you using to wrap the AVCHD files?

Reason I ask is that I'm getting the same green frames & green preview files in the timeline. I actually got the green preview frames in CS5.5, which was odd. Green frame is not media pending, and simply removing that clip from your project then re-importing it should do the trick -it worked for me.

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Explorer ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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My story:

I'm currently immersed in 300gb of clips I'm working with from both A55 cams & a NEX-FS100 that were all wrapped by ClipWrap. This mass of work spans over a 30 day shoot, and was wrapped into MOV so we'd have metadata/cataloging capabilities -which is crucial with over 3500 clips. Transcoding after cataloging is not an option -this would set us back tremendously. The only real option is to use CS5.5 until Adobe sorts out the issues introduced into CS6.

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Community Beginner ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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Blind Monk wrote:

1) What cameras are you are using?

2) What are you using to wrap the AVCHD files?

Reason I ask is that I'm getting the same green frames & green preview files in the timeline. I actually got the green preview frames in CS5.5, which was odd. Green frame is not media pending, and simply removing that clip from your project then re-importing it should do the trick -it worked for me.

1) I had a Sony HDR XR150, all its' footage is fine. I also used a Canon Vixia HFS20 and T3i. The Vixia and the Sony are both AVCHD format.

2) I am not sure what you mean, but here is the the Properties of the offending clip:

File Path: L:\McGregor Wedding\Canon Vixia HFS20\Vixia1.MTS

Type: MPEG Movie

File Size: 1.9 GB

Image Size: 1920 x 1080

Frame Rate: 29.97

Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - Stereo

Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo

Total Duration: 00:11:26:15

Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0

Now I also noticed that when I select the clip in the project pane it says:

Movie, 1920 x 1080 (1.0), video used 1 time

00:04:03:12, 29.97i UFF (This is the most interesting line)

48000Hz - Compressed - Stereo, audio used 1 time

What is 29.97i UFF? I understand that is frame rate and I am guessing i is for interlaced, is UFF for Upper Field First or something else?

So I decided to try removing the clip and reimporting it. I also tried deleting it, using the project manager to move just the clips and the project to a new drive, then copied the offending file to the new project folder and then reimporting it. Still the same result. I feel like the file is the offender, that it is some how corrupt in only a way that Premiere can see.

The other possiblity that I saw posted about somewhere is that I am mixing footage types with a sequence format that is different. My Project settings are from top to bottom of the dialog:

Render: Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration. Now I have a CUDA card but it is not on Adobe's list, so I found information on the internet on how to enable it and did so. I hope this isnt the problem.

Video Display format: Timecode.

Audio Display format: Audio Samples

Capture Format: HDV

I dont think the safe areas have anything to do with this problem.

My Sequence Settings are:

Editing Mode: AVCHD 1080p square pixel

Timebase: 29.97 frames/second

Video

   Frame Size: 1920 horizontal 1080 vertical 16:9

   Pixel Aspect Ratio: square pixels (1.0)

   Fields: No Fields (progressive scan) - I haven't tried a new sequence with UFF (if that means Upper Field First)

   Display Format: 30fps Drop-Frame Timecode

Audio

   Sample rate: 48000 Hz

   Display Format: Audio Samples

Video Previews

   Preview File Format: I-Frame Only MPEG

   Codec: MPEG I-Frame

   Width: 1920

   Hieght: 1080

Maximum Bit Depth and Maximum Render Quality are unchecked.

I remember trying to create a new sequence by dropping the file on the new item button, to see if that would create a sequence that didn't have the green frame problem. Unfortunately it didnt help. I also did a Rolling Edit and moved the cut I have between this camera angle that this clip provides and another to see if it was where I started using the clip in terms of its duration. That didn't help.

Then I thought maybe it was just the preview, maybe if I rendered it out that the resulting video file would be fine. So I put on the transition I wanted and made my work area bar large enought to cover some of the clip before, the transition and a lot of the offending clip and rendered that out at high quality settings. the result was a good start where the non offending clip was, a transition that turned into pixelated red squares in places mixed with freeze frame pixelated footage and then fine video from the offending clip.

I am not sure about what you mean to wrap the AVCHD files.

I have been hoping that every update Adobe does will have one for premiere and that it will fix this problem. I am at a stand still on this Wedding DVD project because of this problem and cannot see how to get around this without using a previous version which I no longer have access to without downloading it illegally. I used to use Production Suite that had been purchased by a Non Profit organization that I volunteered for, but that version and software is no longer mine to use. So I subscribed thinking that I could start using the latest greatest and have all the tools I could ever dreamed of. Well my first project is a total crapfest at this point and I don't see an end in sight.

Is anyone from Adobe working on this? Is there any idea as to what could be the problem? Is there a way to send my project to the techs to see if they can figure it out?

I am so frustrated, bummed and hopeless. I told my customer 2 weeks and I would have the DVDs done. I emailed in the second week and told her that I was going to be late on that delivery. It is now 3 weeks and will probably be 4 by the time I get an answer to this problem. What do I tell my customer? What do I tell her father, who is a friend and coworker in my day job, who suggested me in the first place?!?

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Explorer ,
May 30, 2012 May 30, 2012

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ACT.onn wrote:
The other possiblity that I saw posted about somewhere is that I am mixing footage types with a sequence format that is different.

One of the huge main points of using Premiere Pro is that you can work with different filetypes at different frame rates, so I just cannot see how this would be the case... Your sequence settings jive well.

ACT.onn wrote:

2) I am not sure what you mean, but here is the the Properties of the offending clip:

File Path: L:\McGregor Wedding\Canon Vixia HFS20\Vixia1.MTS

Type: MPEG Movie......


ACT.onn then continued:
........I feel like the file is the offender, that it is some how corrupt in only a way that Premiere can see.

Can you not transcode the offending clip into some other format to see if that works?

I take it this one particular clip has some super important stuff onnit?

Do you have access to Adobe Media Encoder?

Mac or PC?

Move it to some other format (I'll get flamed for sure) like ProRes LT or anything other than what it's currently in... See if this works. Doing this should be simple and (provided you have the tools) should take a very short time. I've had clips that don't work in Premiere which work in Final Cut, and vice versa -I then transcoded them, and they worked....

What do I tell my customer? What do I tell her father, who is a friend and coworker in my day job, who suggested me in the first place?!?

Before telling them anything, take a deep breath or seven, and remember that you gave them the deadline of two weeks -I'm sure in the future you'll leave yourself with a good cushion on time until you fully trust your workflow. You say the footage plays just fine on other media players, so seems to me like you need to transcode that offender footage into some other format and see what happens.

For now keep busting tail to make that important piece of footage usable. Spending time worrying about problems does not get them solved. Only allow yourself to feel let down by Adobe AFTER you deliver to your customer!

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Community Beginner ,
May 31, 2012 May 31, 2012

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Blind Monk wrote:

Can you not transcode the offending clip into some other format to see if that works?

I take it this one particular clip has some super important stuff onnit?

Do you have access to Adobe Media Encoder?

Mac or PC?

Move it to some other format (I'll get flamed for sure) like ProRes LT or anything other than what it's currently in... See if this works. Doing this should be simple and (provided you have the tools) should take a very short time. I've had clips that don't work in Premiere which work in Final Cut, and vice versa -I then transcoded them, and they worked....

Thanks for the encouragement.

I can transcode it to anything I want, as long as I have hard drive space to store it. I was thinking of simply uncompressing it entirely to an avi or something. All of the footage I have is important as it is someone’s wedding. Eventually I will trim it to just what I use, but right now I need all of it so I can do fine edits of the ceremony. In fact all this started after my initial rough cut of the footage. Everything was fine until then.

I am a subscriber to creative cloud. I have everything. I used media encoder to change it to a MPEG avi. Basically changed the "wrapper". I pumped up the quality and made sure that everything was set the same as the AVCHD file. It actually looks really good and is about the same file size. I have imported it and I haven’t gotten any green frames. I do however have stuttering over the same section that I was getting green frames. I was going to do a render of the section that I did before to see if it comes out ok.

The project is 32 minutes long and this problem is in the first 38 seconds. I have got a lot of other edits to fine tune and I am hoping that this will be the only problem I encounter for the rest of the premiere portion of the project. Not that I am ok with having any more problems with any of the DVD creation process I have left to do.

I should have posted my specs before, sorry.

Windows 7 SP1 64bit

AMD Phenom II X4 965e @3400MHz

8192MB DDR2 SDRAM

NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450

Asus M3N72-D Mainboard

nVidia nForce 740a SLI chipset

I have been keeping all the adobe software and my OS up to date and I have no viruses or pirated software on my computer.

I don’t understand why premiere is behaving so badly...

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